Average attendance, what's the real figure ?

[Eddie Garbutt]

Our average attandances maybe down this season on last, but am I not right in thinking that hospitality numbers aren't included in the attendance figure. The reason being if you buy a hospitality package you're effectively paying for a meal with a match thrown in. If that's the case our average this season isn't as bad as everyone is making out because the hospitality packges seem to be selling really well.

I sit in the stand and I'd say there must be at least 50/60 people each match on a hospitality package and for the Gateshead game there must have been well over a hundred.

[Phizzer]

I don't know if the hospitality figures are included in the official attendance or not, but I suspect not.
The club have to pay VAT on gate reciepts, and the cost of taking up a hospitality package also includes VAT. Now if the club then adds the numbers involved in the hospitality suites to the numbers attending through the turnstiles, then the Vatman would be expecting two bites at the same cherry.
1,300 through the gate = 17% of total reciepts = £x
150 Hospitality packages = 17% of that = £y
Add the two together to give a total attendance and the Vatman will expect £x+y+y if that make sense?

However, as the gate reciepts consist of that wonderful, fluid, hideable stuff called cash. Then why not declare that only 1,075 turned up at all? It's not as if the Vatman is outside all the gates actually monitoring who is paying what and how many clicks the turnstile is making, is it?

Not that for one minute am I suggesting that such shennanigans take place at Holker St. God forbid. (Squeaky clean, I'm sure). The bottom line is, the club submits it's figures and revenue from such, and then pays it's taxes accordingly. As does every football club in the land.
Even the one's managed by Steve Evans and the ones chaired by Mr Vaughan.

[Hadrian]

It's not as if the Vatman is outside all the gates actually monitoring who is paying what and how many clicks the turnstile is making, is it?

Very trusting lot are they?

[John L]

Another distortion to the figure also relates to season tickets where I think all the season ticket holders are counted irrespective of whether they turn up or not.
In addition there have been free tickets for children for some games which obviously aren't counted either.

[Steelworks End]

It's not as if the Vatman is outside all the gates actually monitoring who is paying what and how many clicks the turnstile is making, is it?

Don't be too sure of it!

It is not an uncommon tactic for VAT Inspectors to sit outside a restaurant or takeaway, count the number of customers, then multiply it by the average cost of a meal.

And if the declared takings don't tally with what the Inspector calculates, the business has some explaining to do.

No reason why they can't (or don't) apply this to a football ground.

On your hospitality / gate receipts point, it wouldn't be too difficult for the club to apportion part of the package charge to admission and part to hospitality, so they wouldn't be double -counting and paying more VAT than necessary.

[Phizzer]

It is not an uncommon tactic for VAT Inspectors to sit outside a restaurant or takeaway, count the number of customers, then multiply it by the average cost of a meal.

And if the declared takings don't tally with what the Inspector calculates, the business has some explaining to do.

The sneaky buggers

[Stephen Leonard]

I don't know if the hospitality figures are included in the official attendance or not, but I suspect not.
The club have to pay VAT on gate reciepts, and the cost of taking up a hospitality package also includes VAT. Now if the club then adds the numbers involved in the hospitality suites to the numbers attending through the turnstiles, then the Vatman would be expecting two bites at the same cherry.
1,300 through the gate = 17% of total reciepts = £x
150 Hospitality packages = 17% of that = £y
Add the two together to give a total attendance and the Vatman will expect £x+y+y if that make sense?

However, as the gate reciepts consist of that wonderful, fluid, hideable stuff called cash. Then why not declare that only 1,075 turned up at all? It's not as if the Vatman is outside all the gates actually monitoring who is paying what and how many clicks the turnstile is making, is it?

Not that for one minute am I suggesting that such shennanigans take place at Holker St. God forbid. (Squeaky clean, I'm sure). The bottom line is, the club submits it's figures and revenue from such, and then pays it's taxes accordingly. As does every football club in the land.
Even the one's managed by Steve Evans and the ones chaired by Mr Vaughan.

Phizzer

No need to worry. Whether the sponsors were included the attendance figure or not there would not be a problem with the VAT to pay as it is based on the income received from all parts of the clubs revenue.

As for the bit about 'hideable stuff called cash', over the years controls have been put in place to check the flow of cash from the gate etc The gate receipts are reconcilled to the numbers through the gate (hence why it is easier to have separate adult and concession gates).

With regard to the initial poster, the attendances are down however you look at it because the comparison for last year (when I would think there were actually more sponsors) would have been calculated on the same basis as this year and there the drop isnt really being distorted as you suggested.

[ruins]

I don't know if the hospitality figures are included in the official attendance or not, but I suspect not.
The club have to pay VAT on gate reciepts, and the cost of taking up a hospitality package also includes VAT. Now if the club then adds the numbers involved in the hospitality suites to the numbers attending through the turnstiles, then the Vatman would be expecting two bites at the same cherry.
1,300 through the gate = 17% of total reciepts = £x
150 Hospitality packages = 17% of that = £y
Add the two together to give a total attendance and the Vatman will expect £x+y+y if that make sense?

However, as the gate reciepts consist of that wonderful, fluid, hideable stuff called cash. Then why not declare that only 1,075 turned up at all? It's not as if the Vatman is outside all the gates actually monitoring who is paying what and how many clicks the turnstile is making, is it?

Not that for one minute am I suggesting that such shennanigans take place at Holker St. God forbid. (Squeaky clean, I'm sure). The bottom line is, the club submits it's figures and revenue from such, and then pays it's taxes accordingly. As does every football club in the land.
Even the one's managed by Steve Evans and the ones chaired by Mr Vaughan.

Your worrying me Phiz!!

Normally when i see a post of yours this size i get 4 cans and my laughing socks.
Thats just sounding too sensible friend!!!

[Eddie Garbutt]

So should the figure be around 50/60 more per match.

I was at the Luton game and I thought there was a lot more than 1579.

Am I wrong or is it I just can't count ?

[Richard Ingham]

There were 160 in the Corporate rooms on Saturday not the usual 50-60.

[billythefishgilmour]

there was more than 1,500 there on saturday. There was'nt that many spare seats in the stand so lets say there were 900 in the stand. That means another 600 in the rest of the ground. Give over your having a laugh.