Decisions being made

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NORTHERNSOUL
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Re: Decisions being made

Post by NORTHERNSOUL »

Moribund wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 7:13 pm
NORTHERNSOUL wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 7:09 pm


Only if your a bedwetter and scared of something that hardly exists unless you've over 65. Try listening to the real statistics instead of govt propaganda that's there purely to cover over the masses of mistakes that this government have made since day one.

And for starters here's a couple to get you going if your white, under 65, don't work in the NHS or care and have no underlying conditions the total number of deaths in your group is less than 250 out of 36000 and the total percentage of people in the country who have been affected by the virus is just 0.25%.
Aye, [SwearFilter] anyone who is not white, over 65, works for the NHS or has health issues.
No, You.ve clearly missed the point exactly the opposite We should have been protecting the old and vulnerable by making it easier for them to self isolate. That's where the money should have been spent looking after the 5 million people at home who would be most likely to catch it, become ill and possibly die.

While the rest of us got on with our lives and fought the virus but instead Boris was running around like a headless chicken telling us to wash our hands than when he realised plan one hadn't worked he lost the plot shutting the country down trashing the economy for a couple of decades when it was pretty clear that most people in the category I mentioned at worst would get symptoms no worse than normal flu and the few that did need to get hospitalised would be in and out pretty quickly because the place wasn't being overrun and badly infected by old and vulnerable people who should have been safely tucked up at home.

Thankfully now the policy is being driven by the people and Boris is hiding under his bed and so he should because I can't see a simple decision he made to which there wasn't a better option. Should have stopped listening to likes of that Whittey bloke and handed the whole thing over to the Military from day one.

NORTHERNSOUL
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Re: Decisions being made

Post by NORTHERNSOUL »

Suffolk Blue wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 9:13 pm
RedWeb wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 8:32 pm
So is everyone feeling a bit more confident about Barrow going into the Football League? I was always confident, but I understood those who were nervous. Nobody wanted it to happen this way, but happen it has. We just need to be ready and when football starts again we give the EFL a good crack.
The EFL framework will require consent from 36 of the 71 clubs. Its not a given. It should be remembered that 20 clubs in L2 expressed a desire to save Stevenage. However that vote was taken in conference by L2 clubs in isolation. This is not a vote about Stevenage per se remember. This is now the EFL bundling it all into a common framework within which the principles of promotion and relegation at all levels need to be accepted. I doubt there'll be any mention of Stevenage in any motion though no doubt their situation will be mentioned.

Part of the EFLs strategy in all of this has been to wrap up all the individual issues into a single framework proposal. To vote against it a club will have to believe that there is more that cannot be accepted in it than can be. Quite clever really as this gives it the best chance of success. There will probably be some strong words at tomorrow's meeting. Most of them I think will be coming from a small number of League 1 teams (such as Peterborough) who insist on wanting to play on. This is where the battle will be I suspect rather than the bottom of League 2.

I think Rick Parry, who is a shrewd operator has worked out that if the L1 fire can be put out, he'll probably get his majority. Even if it is, the framework should be seen as just that - a scaffold that determines the essential shape of more specific decisions that may yet be modified or amended to suit circumstances. Even after tomorrow I still think the EFL will allow itself some wriggle room to do this, though you might not see it the words quoted.

In terms of this wriggle room the principle of 2 up is absolutely key because it would almost certainly not affect the team at the top of the NL. I am mindful however that Macclesfield are due back in court in June to face a winding up order from creditors (some of their non-playing staff have not been paid since February I believe). I also believe that they are likely to be back in court in September over unpaid taxes. Its unknown whether salaries for May will be paid either. Its likely to be - what a month plus? - before we see any NL play-offs and second team promotion. I very much doubt whether the EFL will firmly shut the door on Stevenage until that point.
SB A couple of points

You seem to be still not getting it about the No relegation from league two thing this was totally unconnected to all the voting at the league two meetings last week and hadn't even been mentioned till two owners threw it into the mix right at the end long after all the rest had been decided and was never part of the deal just a simple request which has now been thrown out and the rest of the division havnt spit their dummies out they have accepted it for what it was.

Secondly, on Macclesfield, The minute they are confirmed as being in League next season the Sealey deal will go through and all the other issues and court cases will go away Now i.m sure you can see just why this is an issue as the value of a club with a golden share and a million pounds a year is completely different to one with no more than a place in the conference.

If the league want to get funny and deduct them another 3 points then they will appeal the penalty imposed for the Plymouth game being called off and from what i.m told as soon as it hit a proper court as opposed to a Kangaroo one it would be thrown out in 5 minutes [ have a read of my post on The Cumbrians all about it ] which would drag on and on and on. You really would think the FL would have learnt what happens when you take your anger at an owner who isn't playing ball out on a club but it seems they've learnt nothing from the Bury fiasco.

NORTHERNSOUL
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Re: Decisions being made

Post by NORTHERNSOUL »

Suffolk Blue wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 9:30 pm
Not until it turns up on my doorstep tied up in bow Redweb.

My summary above may need to be amended as I'm led to believe that a 51% majority may be required in each Division to secure an agreement. So at least 9 of the teams that wanted to save Stevenage last week will have to have their views changed. Definitely not a done deal. You may then see some strong arming from the EFL with several clubs crying foul and threatening action.

One other thing that I haven't seen mentioned on the thread. In terms of play-offs my understanding is that the 4 team rule within the framework only applies to EFL members. So my take on that is that should the NL wish to retain a 6 team play-off it can. Whilst this sounds a little daft in current circumstances it does mean that more teams in the NL might be inclined to sign-off on the framework principle especially if that was coupled with no relegation.
It's now been pretty well accepted the minimum cost of playing even one game in the FL will be just short of 400k [ yes I accept it may be a little less in the conference but not a lot I suspect. ] But come on two and half million just to keep a few knobs in Nottingham happy ?

Do you really think there are 6 clubs no matter how far down the league that you go that would be willing to pay that just to take part in the playoffs coz I don't for me they should either just get tough and tell Notts Co and the rest to just shut up and get ready for next season and promote Harrogate or have a whos captain has the biggest cock to decide it as that's a lot less daft than some of the other solutions being suggested?

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Re: Decisions being made

Post by HenneysKnee »

Notts County’s manager thinks us and Harrogate should be promoted........

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Re: Decisions being made

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NORTHERNSOUL wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 10:18 pm
Suffolk Blue wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 9:30 pm
Not until it turns up on my doorstep tied up in bow Redweb.

My summary above may need to be amended as I'm led to believe that a 51% majority may be required in each Division to secure an agreement. So at least 9 of the teams that wanted to save Stevenage last week will have to have their views changed. Definitely not a done deal. You may then see some strong arming from the EFL with several clubs crying foul and threatening action.

One other thing that I haven't seen mentioned on the thread. In terms of play-offs my understanding is that the 4 team rule within the framework only applies to EFL members. So my take on that is that should the NL wish to retain a 6 team play-off it can. Whilst this sounds a little daft in current circumstances it does mean that more teams in the NL might be inclined to sign-off on the framework principle especially if that was coupled with no relegation.
It's now been pretty well accepted the minimum cost of playing even one game in the FL will be just short of 400k [ yes I accept it may be a little less in the conference but not a lot I suspect. ] But come on two and half million just to keep a few knobs in Nottingham happy ?

Do you really think there are 6 clubs no matter how far down the league that you go that would be willing to pay that just to take part in the playoffs coz I don't for me they should either just get tough and tell Notts Co and the rest to just shut up and get ready for next season and promote Harrogate or have a whos captain has the biggest cock to decide it as that's a lot less daft than some of the other solutions being suggested?
No you might be right NS. My concern was really us not getting dragged into the "will they wont they" "who's in who's out" play-off debate. With two up that takes away the issue from us and passes it on to Harrogate. And yes the Stevenage "request" will probably disappear. Putting a good word in for a friend is one thing, jeopardising your own clubs future in any way by doing so is quite another.

On the Macclesfield issue I'm aware of the proposed Sealy deal. And yes it might make all the difference. The colour of someone's money seems always to overcome the sins of the predecessor. I suppose I've spent a wee while perusing other L2 forums recently and I must admit I was surprised at the amount of bile that gets served up when Macc are mentioned. The current administration there clearly has a serious lack of friends at all levels. Lets just say that the new prospective owners will need to move pretty quickly. I think they've been talking since as far back as December. They would be unwise to leave it much longer. I do feel for the staff and players there though who have suffered financially quite badly.

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Re: Decisions being made

Post by Adam29 »

Macclesfield being taken over now wouldn’t make a difference.
The potential points deduction is for failing to pay their players in March

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Re: Decisions being made

Post by chipmunx »

Adam29 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 5:51 am
Macclesfield being taken over now wouldn’t make a difference.
The potential points deduction is for failing to pay their players in March
what Macclesfield's take over might do however (IF they get a big enough punishment to send them down) is stop them getting relegated to NLN as Boston were and allow them to go into the NL top division.
Bring it on!!!

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Re: Decisions being made

Post by Hitthebar22 »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52680375

An interesting read, and something to follow.

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Re: Decisions being made

Post by NORTHERNSOUL »

Adam29 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 5:51 am
Macclesfield being taken over now wouldn’t make a difference.
The potential points deduction is for failing to pay their players in March
Yes and by the time they were charged with that the deadline to impose any points penalty for it this season had passed.

I would have thought you'd of known that or have you been listening to that [SwearFilter] colleague of yours Phillips who actually knows less than my little toenail as he proves to us every Saturday.

And that's not even taking into account any appeal they might make over the Plymouth fiasco. Try asking Walshy how Workington we punished earlier in the season for the same offence clue they weren't.

People need to get off Maccs back and aim their wrath at the owner where its deserved or do you really think the people at the club don't want to pay the wages on time ? But how are they supposed to do that when the owner hasn't provided the funds ?

There's a very simple answer to this that the FL could bring in tomorrow to stop this as part of the FPPT they make the registered club owner personally liable for any fines issued, not the club that way they could stop all the ridiculous points deductions flying about and hit the owners with some serious fines and if they then didn't pay i.d be sending high court enforcement into their homes whether that be in Derby or Dubai seeing their latest Ferrari disappearing into the dust might just start to focus their minds a bit on running their clubs properly.

Although I do have to say to be fair what i.m told is that when or if the Macc deal does go thru their owner will use the money received to clear any financial penalties outstanding from his time in charge of the club. The bloke hasn't set foot in the ground in three years and i.m pretty sure he wants to be rid of it as much as the fans the FL and football, in general, want rid of him

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Re: Decisions being made

Post by barrowfan »

Solicitor on 5 Live this morning saying he thought that the bottom team in L2 could take action if they are relegated, and the top team in the National League could also sue if they are not promoted.

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Re: Decisions being made

Post by Bigfathoss »

barrowfan wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 9:37 am
Solicitor on 5 Live this morning saying he thought that the bottom team in L2 could take action if they are relegated, and the top team in the National League could also sue if they are not promoted.
As we all know (and remember), solicitors having any say in our club are not good news.
I know it's too idealistic (really...I KNOW), but any club in any division that enters into court proceedings that will delay the return to relative normality should be ultimately ashamed. Sometimes, in the worst of times, there is an acceptance of an uncontrollable situation that must be gained.
BAFC deserve to go up.
BAFC SHOULD go up.
I want BAFC to go up, desperately so.
However, I would not want our club to be part of any process that stops the rest of the league(s) restarting.
I thought about the comparison to our liquidation years, and the stance we had to take there, but that was different in that it was a problem that only affected ourselves and not the whole country.
A=A
Your life, is YOUR life. Live it.

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Re: Decisions being made

Post by Bingo »

barrowfan wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 9:37 am
Solicitor on 5 Live this morning saying he thought that the bottom team in L2 could take action if they are relegated, and the top team in the National League could also sue if they are not promoted.
If there are two places in the football league then any court cases would be stevenage and Harrogate (or play off winner) being denied. Solicitor trying to drum up some business by the sound of this.

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Re: Decisions being made

Post by McMark »

barrowfan wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 9:37 am
Solicitor on 5 Live this morning saying he thought that the bottom team in L2 could take action if they are relegated, and the top team in the National League could also sue if they are not promoted.
Teams might threaten with legal action as a last hope but I would find it highly unlikely that any teams would actually pursue any course of legal action through the courts!
Hopefully some good news before June which is quicker than I thought originally😊
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Re: Decisions being made

Post by Suffolk Blue »

Bingo wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:08 am
barrowfan wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 9:37 am
Solicitor on 5 Live this morning saying he thought that the bottom team in L2 could take action if they are relegated, and the top team in the National League could also sue if they are not promoted.
If there are two places in the football league then any court cases would be stevenage and Harrogate (or play off winner) being denied. Solicitor trying to drum up some business by the sound of this.
That was exactly my point about the EFL enforcing the 2 up rule. Its not whether somebody objects. Somebody always objects. It simply that with a two up decision, the team at the top of the NL essentially breaks free from the argument. It becomes one between the second NL team the and L2 team going down.

As regards legal actions we've done that one to death. Frankly there has been so much bending or breaking of regulations thus far that it would light up any working-from-home solicitor's eyes. My guess would be however that the EFL has crafted its framework in such a way that it would if passed exist as a one-off amalgamation of regulations forged out of the "unique" circumstances of coronavirus.

It is probably designed to be unpickable in the sense that if you attack one part of the entire thing will collapse. That's probably deliberate and is their way of ensuring they get the right level of support for it from their members. So anybody attacking a decision in court would probably now be taking on the entire agreement and be facing a "greater good" argument.

As I've said before I ain't a lawyer and a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. However in a civil court decisions are made against a balancing of factors - hence one reason why those who threaten law suits often fail to follow them up. I'm pretty sure that even if a court had sympathy with a club like Stevenage it would nonetheless also have to accept firstly that the EFLs behaviour was reasonable given the circumstances of coronavirus and secondly that the EFL had a duty of care as administrators of the FL to ensure its continuity. Not an easy nut to crack especially since it should be remembered that all the EFL are doing in the framework agreement is enforcing their existing regulations on promotion and relegation.

Having said all of that, somebody will probably have a go.

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Re: Decisions being made

Post by barrowfan »

McMark wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:10 am

Hopefully some good news before June which is quicker than I thought originally😊
5 Live talking about decisions being announced today! :)

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