Decisions being made

[NORTHERNSOUL]

If the National League goes to a straight vote between all the member clubs from the 3 divisions the season will end up null and void; the mid table sides won’t be voting for the PPG scenario

The NL cant go to a straight vote. If the Prem/EFL decide to prolong or call the season with Promotion/Relegation then the NL have to follow suit. If the NL were to deny a club a legitimate opportunity for promotion directly or via the play-offs by pre-empting a decision, it would find itself in court instantaneously. Further it would be an act of PR suicide to do so. In fact so bad would it be that I'm not sure the NL would actually survive such a decision.

It has no option but to sit on its hands. Unlike many countries that has a system that is controlled by their national football association and which is wholly dominated by a single elite division, in England we have three separate associations, loosely marshalled and tied to the English FA. This creates the illusion of independence when in fact the opposite is true. The NL are bottom feeders. They are followers not leaders. The one thing they will not do (indeed should not do) is act unilaterally.

This is not my beef with the NL. My own problem with them comes from their lack of openness about this situation. They should come clean and move on to what they could be doing now which is representing the interests of their members in their attempt to manage through this crisis. They are not doing this in what looks like an obvious attempt to preserve an illusion of self-importance. They consequently do look rather tin pot.

If you notice the efforts being put in by the likes of Ian Evatt, its increasingly apparent that in his messages and pleas he is addressing the EFL and not the NL. Its because he knoews who the decision makers really are.

There's no reason the NL Couldn't finish the league now as it stands and say that any promotion and relegation will be based on the current standings [ or indeed PPG ] If the FL needs just one club it will be Barrow if it needs two clubs it will be the top 2 if they need 3 it will be the top 3 and they will accept that the FL May or may not relegate clubs [ depending if they were to go with promotion too but no relegation from the PL ] and then at the bottom relegate the lowest placed Northern club and the lowest based Southern club and promote the champions of each of those leagues [ they could also promote the runners up in each if they preferred to keep the top league up to strength and then if they wished to invite the clubs at the top/runners up in the NPL and Southernleague to join the NL if they wished ]

[Suffolk Blue]

Northern Soul - I think you are correct. The only decision that the NL couldn't really make now is a "null and void" one for the reasons indicated (i.e. it technically affects the EFL and would run counter to current received wisdom).

It could finish the season right now on a PPG or "as is" basis. Indeed it could come up with any solution it likes that generates two teams for promotion. It could then say to the EFL "here are our two teams for you whenever you are ready to take them". So why wont it do this?

Firstly to do so would still mean pre-empting a decision by the EFL on its preferred way of finishing its season. If the EFL followed Premiership protocol and became fixated on finishing the season it might then look very dimly on the NL jumping the gun. It might not accept the outcome and could potentially use it as an excuse for barring promotion. However I do agree that this would be marginally less risky than simply "voiding" the season, especially in the face of the determination of our football associations desire to conclude the season.

Secondly you would have to find a solution which preserved the status quo for all of those teams that would be "disadvantaged" by such a decision in the NL. Otherwise you'll probably find yourself legally injuncted by the likes of Chairman Dave at Fylde. So no relegation and how do you sort out the play-offs? The NL promotes two teams not one. You cant present the EFL with half a solution. There are many ways you could decide a play-off "winner" as you've pointed out but whichever was chosen would be the NLs choice and the EFL is not duty bound to accept any of them. Further since the EFL will have the same play-off problem, the NL could not guarantee it came up with the same method.

Which as Mary Poppins once said bring us back to "Doh!" The NL could do lots of things. The fact remains however the NL lacks the clout to ensure that any decision it makes would "stick" and I'm sure that if a controversial outcome has to be decided it would rather someone else made it.

[barrowfan]

Voiding the season could open them to a few lawsuits I would think and claims for lost income.

PPG is the fairest way and we can then finish it properly with clubs getting rid of surplus to requirement players off their books.

Waiting another few months to finish the season could be financially crippling for some clubs and a few could go under, especially as the NL is exempt from the help from the PL - if that ever materialises!

Come on National League. Grow a pair and make a decision!

[Suffolk Blue]

Strange that for many people Voiding has always been seen as the fairest and most obvious outcome. It is the least fair and legally is very questionable.

I may also have mixed up my Julie Andrews classics above. Sound of Music not Mary Poppins.

[NORTHERNSOUL]

Northern Soul - I think you are correct. The only decision that the NL couldn't really make now is a "null and void" one for the reasons indicated (i.e. it technically affects the EFL and would run counter to current received wisdom).

It could finish the season right now on a PPG or "as is" basis. Indeed it could come up with any solution it likes that generates two teams for promotion. It could then say to the EFL "here are our two teams for you whenever you are ready to take them". So why wont it do this?

Firstly to do so would still mean pre-empting a decision by the EFL on its preferred way of finishing its season. If the EFL followed Premiership protocol and became fixated on finishing the season it might then look very dimly on the NL jumping the gun. It might not accept the outcome and could potentially use it as an excuse for barring promotion. However I do agree that this would be marginally less risky than simply "voiding" the season, especially in the face of the determination of our football associations desire to conclude the season.

Secondly you would have to find a solution which preserved the status quo for all of those teams that would be "disadvantaged" by such a decision in the NL. Otherwise you'll probably find yourself legally injuncted by the likes of Chairman Dave at Fylde. So no relegation and how do you sort out the play-offs? The NL promotes two teams not one. You cant present the EFL with half a solution. There are many ways you could decide a play-off "winner" as you've pointed out but whichever was chosen would be the NLs choice and the EFL is not duty bound to accept any of them. Further since the EFL will have the same play-off problem, the NL could not guarantee it came up with the same method.

Which as Mary Poppins once said bring us back to "Doh!" The NL could do lots of things. The fact remains however the NL lacks the clout to ensure that any decision it makes would "stick" and I'm sure that if a controversial outcome has to be decided it would rather someone else made it.

But the FL don't have the urgency to sort out the situation over the player wages and contracts that the NL do. As in contract players in the FL will be ok and not subject to the 44-week situation and out of contract ones in the FL are actually paid up to Aug 31st not out on their arses on April 28th as many out of contract players in the NL will be.

Ok you could do a mass extension of all contracts but whos going to pay for that and if that involves the clubs paying any of it themselves you can see the argument from the mid-table clubs that why should they when they have nothing to play for [ as Borham Wood have said ]

Much simpler just to agree with the FL that they will accept the table as it stands [ or by PPG ] and that they will take the number of clubs that they need in the order that they finished in the table and that in return the NL will accept whatever decision they make over relegation ie 1 or none.

This would be a much better situation all around for the FA as it avoids the expense of someone having to stump up to extend the NL player contracts or the issue of some clubs fielding teams made up of Scholars and academy players. And would i.m sure be helpful in boxing off another couple of steps in the pyramid leaving them just the PL and FL to concentrate on.

[Suffolk Blue]

Dont disagree with a word of what you say NS. I'm merely trying to articulate what I'm actually seeing from the NL and why they are behaving in the way they seem to be.

You would've hoped that the type of options we've been discussing on this thread are the daily bread and butter of the NL administrators currently. But since they dont communicate freely we dont know. Any decision they did make would have to involve facing up to their members and this they could do. Apart however from a simple canvassing of their members with obvious results they dont appear to want to do much.

As you point out there will come a point where the ability of clubs to simply tread water will be reached. A point of no return. Probably at the end of April. Wouldn't it be great if the NL could come up with a positive proposal by then. If it were that at that point the "senior" leagues wanted to play on, but it became clear that the NL could not, then that would be the time to say "Look EFA we understand that you are committed to a finish but for various reasons we cannot do this. In the spirit of what you are trying to achieve, agree with us a means of curtailing the season with a PPG solution".

This is the stuff of my dreams. Unfortunately I dont really see the NL as much more than the sum of its members vested interests. So I'm not holding my breath.

PS. Have just noticed today that Bundesliga clubs are now back in limited training. Very early admittedly but demonstrating a positive commitment to recommencing the season.

[blue nige]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52187049

I see his point but what about contracts signing new players etc .

[mickmike wilson]

Strange that for many people Voiding has always been seen as the fairest and most obvious outcome. It is the least fair and legally is very questionable.

Poppins.

Exactly, Why penalise those who have done well & reward failure?

All this talk of clubs suing leaves a bitter taste....These are unprecedented times & unprecedented decisions will probably have to be made & there will be Winners & Losers....Having the Losers win & the Winners lose would be a backwards decision in any walk of life.

[Middleton Nick]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52189058

FA holding back on the lower division outcome.

[Nigel Bamford]

Not a rosy picture from FA chair, Greg Clarke:

FA chairman Greg Clarke: English football could 'lose clubs and leagues' - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52191973

[barrowfan]

Player contracts can be extended:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52188913

[mickycarrol]

As an aside to this I hope we’ve been in touch with Blackburn in regards to possibly needing to keep White and Platt a little longer than planned. Permanently would be an option id be willing to look at lol.

[Bingo]

How many more ten page essays before this saga concludes... What will be will be.. We can't change what ever happens

[chipmunx]

As an aside to this I hope we’ve been in touch with Blackburn in regards to possibly needing to keep White and Platt a little longer than planned. Permanently would be an option id be willing to look at lol.

IF we get promoted (and we're all hoping we do) signing them both permanently would be a great move.

[barrowfan]

How many more ten page essays before this saga concludes... What will be will be.. We can't change what ever happens

I think it’s called speculating whilst we’ve got little else to do in these challenging times, and for some it can be therapeutic- genuine comment.

Let those that wish to, get on with it, and if you don’t like it, don’t read the thread.