Decisions being made

[russell_anderson]

Haven't the fa told the Premier league it must be decided on sporting merit effectively ruling out null and void

UEFA have ruled it out for all leagues who want their teams in the European competitions which means the Premier League definitely won't be null and void and, therefore, none of the EFL leagues will be null and void either.

[goalie6789]

Haven't the fa told the Premier league it must be decided on sporting merit effectively ruling out null and void

UEFA have ruled it out for all leagues who want their teams in the European competitions which means the Premier League definitely won't be null and void and, therefore, none of the EFL leagues will be null and void either.

It needs breaking down into chunks.

1. The National League have said that the season is complete - end of - so it can't be null and void if it's already complete.

2. Is there going to be promotion and/or relegation?

3. If so how many teams go up and how many go down?

[Suffolk Blue]

Haven't the fa told the Premier league it must be decided on sporting merit effectively ruling out null and void

UEFA have ruled it out for all leagues who want their teams in the European competitions which means the Premier League definitely won't be null and void and, therefore, none of the EFL leagues will be null and void either.

The point that I think Adam was getting at earlier was that null and void may not be the issue. Dont think N&V is going to happen. However the suggestion is that the EFL will decide the season on merit but then effectively decide not to relegate anybody from L2 because it determines for some reason that the season has not been completed properly. That was the point that Ian Dennis seemed to be alluding to, though that assessment was made just after the NL has decided to simply wait for the EFL decision.

By doing this, so the argument would go, the EFL would effectively create a null & void as far as relegation were concerned, though it would at least establish the principle of a league winner and promotion. This would be important since the NL would be duty bound to follow. The EFL gets one team up which if the NL season is decided on merit I guess would be us. But Stevenage stay up. The NL could presumably then apply the no relegation rule to itself. I'd go as far as to suggest that this "arrangement" may have had support both in the EFL and the NL.

Problem is over the last week Rick Parry has become a champion of the promotion with relegation principle in order to ensure his clubs go to the Premier League. Its become part of the EFL's strategy. For my part I cannot see a reasonable, legal and consistent argument for the EFL now deciding to relegate its members in the Championship and in League 1 but not in League 2 as long as the NL replicated the method used to determine the L2 season and it wasn't null and void.

[alvin]

In the end of the day we will go up but how can we or other teams start or get new players with no income , no fans no money we be back down the next time we get in ground.

[Adam29]

UEFA have ruled it out for all leagues who want their teams in the European competitions which means the Premier League definitely won't be null and void and, therefore, none of the EFL leagues will be null and void either.

The point that I think Adam was getting at earlier was that null and void may not be the issue. Dont think N&V is going to happen. However the suggestion is that the EFL will decide the season on merit but then effectively decide not to relegate anybody from L2 because it determines for some reason that the season has not been completed properly. That was the point that Ian Dennis seemed to be alluding to, though that assessment was made just after the NL has decided to simply wait for the EFL decision.

By doing this, so the argument would go, the EFL would effectively create a null & void as far as relegation were concerned, though it would at least establish the principle of a league winner and promotion. This would be important since the NL would be duty bound to follow. The EFL gets one team up which if the NL season is decided on merit I guess would be us. But Stevenage stay up. The NL could presumably then apply the no relegation rule to itself. I'd go as far as to suggest that this "arrangement" may have had support both in the EFL and the NL.

Problem is over the last week Rick Parry has become a champion of the promotion with relegation principle in order to ensure his clubs go to the Premier League. Its become part of the EFL's strategy. For my part I cannot see a reasonable, legal and consistent argument for the EFL now deciding to relegate its members in the Championship and in League 1 but not in League 2 as long as the NL replicated the method used to determine the L2 season and it wasn't null and void.

This is where the problems lie:

5176BA64-8236-46C8-8DC9-8C9BD63DE452.jpeg (342.04 KiB) Viewed 5374 times

Until a stance is made right at the top nobody wants to make any decisions because all could change IF the premier league are unable to complete their season

[NORTHERNSOUL]

I would love to be proved wrong but I can not for the life of me see them relegating anyone from League 2 especially now with Macclesfield having the points deducted and a 10pt gap being just 3pts

There does seem to be loose consensus at least amongst fans forums that if Macc and Stevenage were the other way around it would be much better. And it has to be said that Stevenage have handled the situation with a lot of dignity thus far. Its a tough one because Macc face a winding up order in September, are clearly teetering on the verge of financial collapse and are currently just about getting by with funds released by the Premier League. However if they have to survive until September or October (God forbid January) without any gate revenue their chances of being around are slim.

With the Premier League confirming that they will relegate 3 this season and with the EFL enforcing promotion and relegation in the Championship and L1, the EFL will need to have a good reason for sparing Stevenage because it will involve transgressing one of the golden rules in this unique situation - that of always applying the rules consistently. It would risk a legal challenge, which harking back to the subject of injunctions might well, if it succeeded, create a threat to the entire EFL strategy which so far they seem to be deploying rather well. I'm not sure Stevenage carry that amount of leverage.

The NL should now be telling anybody that wants to listen that they expect the EFL to declare on the same across the board and that the decisions that the NL have (not) taken have been based entirely on this expectation. Lastly the FA (fickle though it is) came out very heavily on the side of relegation in the Premier League yesterday and will have to sanction any EFL plan. Rick Parry would be foolish not to engage with the FA on this in advance of any announcement

But I do agree that there doesn't appear to be much appetite to relegate Stevenage.

Once Macc are confirmed as being in Lge 2 next season the guy interested in buying them will be willing to pay the amount that the current owner is asking and the deal will go through.

And it's pretty certain that if they appeal they will get some of the points back as on one of the points they were deducted over is very debatable and a legal case over it is the last thing the FL need now its much easier to just give them 3 of the points back. And the fact that by the time that appeal would be heard thanks to furlough they will have a record of paying the wages on time for 4 months on the trot which is almost unheard of since they returned to the league and that would help them no end.

And don't forget clubs like Macc who are run on a shoestring are much easier to put into hibernation than one with large incomings which then disappear but large outgoings which don't meaning that they could well be in a better position for next season [ whenever it starts ] than some of league twos larger clubs.

[NORTHERNSOUL]

They already have the excuse
It would mean only one promotion from the National League which has been said already in the past and is what the national league are waiting on clarity over

Well I dont believe the stated position of the NL has ever been that they only want one team promoted despite it always looking as if that might be the extent of the EFLs generosity. There is a statement by Ian Dennis in his report on 5th May as follows:

"BBC Sport understands if the EFL does not complete its season then Stevenage are likely to avoid relegation, with only one team coming up from the National League".

So if he is right the issue is what does "complete" mean? Your view seems to be that complete can only mean completion of all outstanding fixtures. Therefore calling the season based on points scored or PPG would not be classed as "completion". Fair enough. But then the EFL is effectively choosing to apply different rules to different clubs.

I.d say although they were primarily aimed at the PL yesterdays comments about relegation apply just as equally to the FL over the Stevenage position.

[chipmunx]

Well I dont believe the stated position of the NL has ever been that they only want one team promoted despite it always looking as if that might be the extent of the EFLs generosity. There is a statement by Ian Dennis in his report on 5th May as follows:

"BBC Sport understands if the EFL does not complete its season then Stevenage are likely to avoid relegation, with only one team coming up from the National League".

So if he is right the issue is what does "complete" mean? Your view seems to be that complete can only mean completion of all outstanding fixtures. Therefore calling the season based on points scored or PPG would not be classed as "completion". Fair enough. But then the EFL is effectively choosing to apply different rules to different clubs.

I.d say although they were primarily aimed at the PL yesterdays comments about relegation apply just as equally to the FL over the Stevenage position.

yes - if they end up with no relegation from the PL the EPL would still feel happy that the spirit of the tripartite agreement between the PL/EPL and FA was kept if there was still promotion and that may mean the suggestions seen much earlier in the thread of divisions of 22,24,24 and 22 clubs (or possibly 24?) would come back as an option. that would probably mean no relegation from the EPL leagues and 2 up from the championship and division 1, 3 up from division 2 and most probably just one up from the NL. That would mean that ALL clubs in automatic promotion spots between the championship and NL still got promoted - but no play off's and hence no play off winners promoted.

[Suffolk Blue]

Until a stance is made right at the top nobody wants to make any decisions because all could change IF the premier league are unable to complete their season

Thanks Adam. Yes I agree and I think we are really all on the same page. The notion that the Premier League has committed to a three up three down solution is still premature. Those that have been outspoken so far about this are either in the EFL or the FA (though the latter does carry some potential serious clout).

If the Premier League plays its remaining fixtures then a continuation of the 3 up, 3 down is very probable. If that happens there would be no need for the EFL to adapt its existing policy on promotion/relegation (other than to promote one team rather than subject it to a play-off). In those circumstances two up from the NL would be expected.

If the Premier League does not play its remaining fixtures then a null and void remains pretty unlikely. Financial penalties would be very painful and the intervention of Greg Clarke on Monday at the FA made it clear that the FA required the Premier League to it have at the very least a "merited" solution (PPG). Whilst our expectation might be that in these circumstances be that there will still be 3 up and 3 down, there would be and indeed already is pressure from the bottom of the Premier League to modify that. If that happened it would require the EFL to adjust its position and assuming that the EFL would then have fewer clubs promoted from the Championship it could apply an adjustment at the other end and reprieve Stevenage with the Bury "gap" being the sole place then available.

So Stevenage has no special status and there aren't any arguments that could probably be used to reprieve it under normal circumstances but we might be living with a new normal. Stevenage is a pawn in these scenarios.

If we follow that logic then it is unlikely that he EFL will confirm promotions and relegations until the position of the Premier League is also confirmed. But you could however at the very least have the EFL confirm that it is intending to end the season for L1/L2 and that it will do so on "merit"

[HenneysKnee]

From Ian Dennis (BBC Football Reporter)

No decision expected this week for National League. EFL Board meet today, Rick Parry will meet Govt officials tomorrow and League 2 divisional meeting takes place on Friday

[blue nige]

The EFL Board is meeting today to discuss whether it’s feasible to conclude the season.

Completing fixtures in Leagues One and Two is looking increasingly impossible.

The National League is waiting on a an update from the EFL before deciding the outcomes of their leagues. https://t.co/ssRXVQbEU2

[barrowfan]

Post deleted.

[Middleton Nick]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52644313

Linked to Blue Nige's post.

[Suffolk Blue]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52644313

Linked to Blue Nige's post.

Do you think the journo has been reading this thread? At least it sort of backs up the views we have been expressing.

I also understand that HMG have now dropped the stipulation that Premier League matches will have to be played at neutral grounds. This now makes the prospect of a restart rather more likely. Anything that gets the Premier League to the end of the season will help us.

[Wintergreen]

Scenario: Premier League starts up again. Some Liverpool stars refuse to play. Man City start to win games. Depleted Liverpool go on a losing streak. Man City win the league by one point. These are strange days indeed my brothers and sisters.