Transfer Embargo LIFTED

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saltcellar
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Re: Barrow Transfer embargo...?

Post by saltcellar » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:34 am

Hadrian wrote:In his third BBCRC interview in two days this morning Brian Keen spoke: “Players have been paid…a small NI bill unpaid but cheque will be sent today…not a significant amount…significant money owed to club due to be paid…financial situation blown out of all proportion - mountain out of molehill…cashflow issue…expect embargo to be lifted immediately…transfer will still go ahead…definitely want to remain in Blue Square Conference National club”
Excellent report of the interview Hadrian.
He did also say the clubs finances are ok.
Last edited by saltcellar on Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Jim
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Barrow Transfer embargo...?

Post by Jim » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:34 am

Hadrian wrote:In his third BBCRC interview in two days this morning Brian Keen spoke: “Players have been paid…a small NI bill unpaid but cheque will be sent today…not a significant amount…significant money owed to club due to be paid…financial situation blown out of all proportion - mountain out of molehill…cashflow issue…expect embargo to be lifted immediately…transfer will still go ahead…definitely want to remain in Blue Square Conference National club”
I assume the club will still be owed the winning money from FA cup and trophy? That plus postponement of home games may well have left them short of cash.

saltcellar
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Re: Barrow Transfer embargo...?

Post by saltcellar » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:42 am

jim wrote:
Hadrian wrote:In his third BBCRC interview in two days this morning Brian Keen spoke: “Players have been paid…a small NI bill unpaid but cheque will be sent today…not a significant amount…significant money owed to club due to be paid…financial situation blown out of all proportion - mountain out of molehill…cashflow issue…expect embargo to be lifted immediately…transfer will still go ahead…definitely want to remain in Blue Square Conference National club”
I assume the club will still be owed the winning money from FA cup and trophy? That plus postponement of home games may well have left them short of cash.
Brian did cite a lack of home games that has caused a cash problem.
I think you are right about the cup money.

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Re: Barrow Transfer embargo...?

Post by Hadrian » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:56 am

While a lot of people seem to know what is needed to be done to make the club a success, when it comes to actually volunteering to do someting it may be a different matter. I was slow getting my volunteer form back to the club - more than a fortnight after they were issued due to holidays - but when I asked what response there had been I was told that mine was the fourteenth to be received. Perhaps all the claims of willingness to help on here haven't been fully substantiated?

(Has my offer been taken up? Not at present - but there is a valid reason for that.)
THE NORTHERN WAY

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Re: Barrow Transfer embargo...?

Post by Alhosk » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:57 am

jim wrote:I assume the club will still be owed the winning money from FA cup and trophy? That plus postponement of home games may well have left them short of cash.
Aren't cup winnings paid after the final?

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Re: Barrow Transfer embargo...?

Post by saltcellar » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:14 am

Alhosk wrote:
jim wrote:I assume the club will still be owed the winning money from FA cup and trophy? That plus postponement of home games may well have left them short of cash.
Aren't cup winnings paid after the final?
Prize money in both competitions is paid out within 7 days of the completion of each round.

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Re: Barrow Transfer embargo...?

Post by Richard Ingham » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:36 am

Is the share of the gate money paid as quickly though?

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Re: Barrow Transfer embargo...?

Post by barrowfan » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:42 am

I think one thing that comes out from all this is how closely the football authorities and the Inland Revenue are working together to clean up the game, as they said they would.

I think the days of robbing Peter to pay Paul are well and truly numbered no matter how tempting it is when cashflow is a problem.

It can't be easy for any club at our level and my hats go off to the board for doing what they do.

I think that every club and not just ours must look at the lessons to be learned, particularly about ringfencing the money they dock from players' wages to put aside for the taxman.

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Re: Barrow Transfer embargo...?

Post by spirit of 1990 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:03 am

All sounds pretty reassuring, just hope thats all it is & there's nothing lurking somewhere in the background.

Could the money still owed to us be anything to do with Macc & Grimsby or was all that sorted?
We didn't underestimate them, we just didn't think they were that good.

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Re: Barrow Transfer embargo...?

Post by Lee Hunt » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:32 am

This was mentioned on the non-league show, and I quote from the FA's Laws
"The 5% payment to The Association for replayed matches
in the First, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Rounds of the Competition Proper shall
be divided at the completion of the Competition amongst all the Clubs outside the FA
Premier League and The Football League playing in the First Round of the Competition
Proper." I'll leave it to someone else to do the sums, but Arsenal and Man U have 3rd round replays, but it may not be a great help as it would not be paid until the seasons over

Big E

Re: Barrow Transfer embargo...?

Post by Big E » Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:38 pm

An excellent piece from Ralph in NZ for those who don't get his newsletter..

On Sunday night, Barrow AFC chairman Brian Keen admitted that the club is subject to transfer embargo imposed by the FA because of outstanding tax bill, and this is the reason why Danny O'Donnell's move from Stockport County fell through, and the Evening Mail reports: "He (Keen) has, however, moved to ease supporters' concerns by saying that the unpaid National Insurance bill will "be sorted in the morning (Monday)." Keen said he didn't know about the embargo until Saturday evening. Centre-half Tom Anderson and striker Joe Jackson will both see their current loan spells from parent club Burnley come to an end tomorrow".

I think we can infer from this whilst Brian Keen didn't know about the embargo, there's no reason to doubt him here. However, we can infer that he knew about the outstanding tax bill (if he didn't, then that raises even more interesting questions, he is the chairman after all), but perhaps knew either the club couldn't pay it in time or believed the matter had been sorted (it could have been compounded by Russell Dodd being ill).

So, we have been told, but in a way which perhaps does leave a sour(ish) taste in the mouth, as the club have only come clean after the information came into the public domain from other sources. Let us go back twelve months, the club were late paying December 2011's National Insurance (NI) tax bill which led to a winding-up order petition being laid, but, we have to remember HMRC now take immediate action if a football club's payment for VAT or NI (both now paid monthly) is missed. The bill was paid, but as proceedings were launched against the club (back in January 2012), the first time they could be halted when was the matter appeared in court (late 2012) and was dismissed by the judge.

Here we have a quandary. Do the club admit to supporters that they are unable to pay the VAT or NI tax bill and are due in court or face a transfer embargo and perhaps encourage other creditors to seek payment immediately, rather (for example) than at the end of the month, or do the club hope no-one will notice and they can wing it?

Perhaps the answer's somewhere in the middle.

Of course, paying the bills on time is the answer, but there are times when, for whatever reason, that isn't possible. Bearing in mind our average home attendance of 939 is well down on the break-even figure (back in October, Brian Keen said it was 1250 to 1300), the difference will soon add up, remember we five months into the season

Barrow AFC will have looked at trimming the expenditure as much as possible, and we haven't been signing players left, right and centre, have we? But I assume, as with a household budget, there are things that have to be paid, and sooner or later there's no more fat to trim.

It's not a nice position to be in, and I think most people would have experienced something similar at one time in their life, but we have come through it, eventually. In the meantime, Barrow AFC are a club that must keep playing and more importantly paying the wages, the electricity bill and everything else.

And let's not forget we don't have a home game now until Tuesday 22 January when we entertain Barrow v Stockport County. It could be a long few weeks.

My advice? Stick with the Board of Directors, give them our support (they have steered the good ship Barrow AFC through choppier waters than these before), wait until the AGM and see if they can help fill in the gaps, hope for a victory in the FA Trophy against Gateshead and a home time in the next
(Fourth) Round on Saturday 26 January, otherwise we are away to Dartford.

What else? Oh, yes, we travel to Luton Town on Tuesday night for a League game.

How did they get on in their last game?

Beat Wolverhampton Wanderers in the FA Cup?

Oh, no pressure then . . . .

Oh, yes, remember, a football club is for life, not just for Christmas, imagine where we would be if people had given up on Barrow AFC back in June
1972 when we lost our Football League status?

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Re: Barrow Transfer embargo...?

Post by Bingo » Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:03 pm

Quite reassuring from BK - But i do hope it is the truth and this isn't just the tip of the ice burg. Been encouraging how people have come on here with ideas to raise some extra money for the club.

The key in my opinion is to try and get more people into the ground to watch the games - sometimes being involved in a relegation battle can encourage more to come. Of course if we win next Saturday that will be great and the quarter finals of the FA Trophy.

Many in the town of Barrow seems to have fallen out with Barrow AFC for some reason and I'm not sure why this is. The rugby got a crowd of 875 for a friendly this weekend - we need to work hard to promote the club, start selling tickets in advance and lets get this back to the walls attitude - if we just accept we are going down the crowds will only go one way .. if we have a bit of fight about us then the crowds might actually start to pick up.

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Re: Barrow Transfer embargo...?

Post by Matty Bassdriver » Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:11 pm

Hadrian wrote:In his third BBCRC interview in two days this morning Brian Keen spoke: “…a small NI bill unpaid but cheque will be sent today”
Surely to bring about the immediate lifting of the embargo it would be preferable to arrange a direct transfer of funds to HMRC, rather than a cheque (which will most likely need to go through bank clearance).

Cashflow due to lack of home games for a few weeks in January (due to frozen pitches if nothing else) was surely foreseeable before the season even started, in fact as soon as the fixture list was published. In an ideal world the BoD should set a sensible budget which enables bills to paid throughout the season - irrespective of when home games take place. Any cup money received is a bonus which shoudn't be budgeted for anyway. A sensible budget would also include captial reserves or access to emergency funding (from our stadium sponsor perhaps!?) to dip into when cashflow doesn't quite work out as planned. Any well-run organisation (be that a business, charity or even a scout troop!) has such a facility.

I hate to be critical, when these lads have no doubt used what they would describe as best endeavours on our behalf for many years, but running the budget this close to the bone - so players and HMRC (and no doubt a range of other lower profile creditors) run an ongoing risk of not being paid - raises serious questions about the capability and competence of the BoD to continue to run the club on the current basis.

If a sensible budget means that we can't afford (without a significant uplift in off-field income) to stay full-time pro then so be it. Hyde etc seem to do ok on a semi-pro basis...

Big E

Re: Barrow Transfer embargo...?

Post by Big E » Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:21 pm

Bingo wrote:Quite reassuring from BK - But i do hope it is the truth and this isn't just the tip of the ice burg. Been encouraging how people have come on here with ideas to raise some extra money for the club.

The key in my opinion is to try and get more people into the ground to watch the games - sometimes being involved in a relegation battle can encourage more to come. Of course if we win next Saturday that will be great and the quarter finals of the FA Trophy.

Many in the town of Barrow seems to have fallen out with Barrow AFC for some reason and I'm not sure why this is. The rugby got a crowd of 875 for a friendly this weekend - we need to work hard to promote the club, start selling tickets in advance and lets get this back to the walls attitude - if we just accept we are going down the crowds will only go one way .. if we have a bit of fight about us then the crowds might actually start to pick up.
The rugby have a lot more links into the local scene and junior clubs - something the soccer needs to really take a look at, I'm fed up of saying this!!

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Re: Barrow Transfer embargo...?

Post by ron bacardi » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:55 pm

Matty Bassdriver wrote:
Hadrian wrote:In his third BBCRC interview in two days this morning Brian Keen spoke: “…a small NI bill unpaid but cheque will be sent today”
Surely to bring about the immediate lifting of the embargo it would be preferable to arrange a direct transfer of funds to HMRC, rather than a cheque (which will most likely need to go through
Agreed Bassdriver, a direct payment can very easily be sent to HMRC for free, it has the recipient account details on the bill, and the bank can do this very easily at a customers request, even do it online if they were worried about going into the bank in case it got out how much its for. Why send a cheque, get with the times.

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