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DaveP wrote:... why what should be relatively simple accounts are late in the first place and now so late to incur thousands of pounds in fines and penalties. I know I'm a dog with a bone on this topic but there really is no excuse whatsoever.

There are standards of business and financial conduct that are expected to be met by any club so that auditors can confidently assert that the accounts are a "true and fair representation of the financial affairs of the business".

It boils down to open and accountable book keeping so that there is no doubt about what happened to what income, from what source, banked where, spent on what expenditure etc and routinely recorded in a timely fashion for all transactions.

Relatively simple indeed.

phud wrote:

DaveP wrote:... why what should be relatively simple accounts are late in the first place and now so late to incur thousands of pounds in fines and penalties. I know I'm a dog with a bone on this topic but there really is no excuse whatsoever.

There are standards of business and financial conduct that are expected to be met by any club so that auditors can confidently assert that the accounts are a "true and fair representation of the financial affairs of the business".

It boils down to open and accountable book keeping so that there is no doubt about what happened to what income, from what source, banked where, spent on what expenditure etc and routinely recorded in a timely fashion for all transactions.

Relatively simple indeed.

So there's no good excuses for the accounts being very late besides the obvious bad business practices, do our BoD's own personnel business's manage to get their accounts in on time ??? if Yes, why the difference with BAFC

phud wrote:

DaveP wrote:... why what should be relatively simple accounts are late in the first place and now so late to incur thousands of pounds in fines and penalties. I know I'm a dog with a bone on this topic but there really is no excuse whatsoever.

There are standards of business and financial conduct that are expected to be met by any club so that auditors can confidently assert that the accounts are a "true and fair representation of the financial affairs of the business".

It boils down to open and accountable book keeping so that there is no doubt about what happened to what income, from what source, banked where, spent on what expenditure etc and routinely recorded in a timely fashion for all transactions.

Relatively simple indeed.

I've been in tax and accountancy for 38 years and I stand by what I say that these accounts should be simple!!

Why don't you offer to do them for free then ? The club is always looking for volunteers? Your good at critisizing things

DaveP wrote:I've been in tax and accountancy for 38 years and I stand by what I say that these accounts should be simple!!

Exactly ... but if the books have not been kept properly there could be a problem unravelling income and expenditure causing the delay.

Still 38 years of experience could soon solve any problems couldn't it?

Blaming others for the clubs failure to submit its accounts isn't an excuse.
The club have been submitting accounts on time on the 12 previous occasions, why all of a sudden haven't they been submitted on time on this occasion?
The club are 2 faced, they have probably cost us several thousand for this failure yet at the same time moan at us when they don't get crowds and are short of cash - well take a look closer to home at ways of how to stop losing cash?

We were told that the delay was partly due to the fact we would get more "up to date accounts" evidently this is not going to happen.

popsider wrote:We were told that the delay was partly due to the fact we would get more "up to date accounts" evidently this is not going to happen.

The accounts being referred to would only show us the clubs financial position up until 30 June 2011.
At the meetings in July/August it was mentioned that we were told we'd get a more up to date position of the clubs finances at the AGM they were going to hold in August, then September.
That wasn't an excuse for the clubs accounts being submitted late (they were already late at that time) and now I don't believe they were ever going to give us an update of the finances. Likewise with the debentures issue they were contacting us about in September.

blueballs wrote:Still 38 years of experience could soon solve any problems couldn't it?

I won't rise to the bait other than to say your comment is totally unecessary.

IF the BOD were having to prepare the accounts themselves then yes perhaps it would be a bit daunting BUT a professional firm of accountants are doing this and even the worst of incomplete records can produce some accounts within the statutory limits.

We are not talking about £50 or so here but £000's and the BOD should be held accountable.

If the reality is as you suggest that the business records are so bad that its impossible to prepare some accounts then we have a very different scenario where the BOD should be dismissed as they have legal requirements to do so.

Can someone at the AGM ask when the auditors were first asked to prepare the accounts and when they were completed.

I don't ask these questions lightly especially in difficult times but given the amounts involved and the offences which may have taken place I have real fears of further action by HMRC and Companies House!! I have put these questions direct to thhe BOD on several occasions but with no response.

phud wrote:

DaveP wrote:... why what should be relatively simple accounts are late in the first place and now so late to incur thousands of pounds in fines and penalties. I know I'm a dog with a bone on this topic but there really is no excuse whatsoever.

There are standards of business and financial conduct that are expected to be met by any club so that auditors can confidently assert that the accounts are a "true and fair representation of the financial affairs of the business".

It boils down to open and accountable book keeping so that there is no doubt about what happened to what income, from what source, banked where, spent on what expenditure etc and routinely recorded in a timely fashion for all transactions.

Relatively simple indeed.

Not necessarily the club's fault. When I was in business, it once took our auditors 11 months to complete the accounts, in spite of chivvying! I am not saying the club is blameless, I just don't know the facts and probably neither do most if not all who post on here.

Ps - I believe the maximum fine for late accounts is less than a thousand, not "thousands".

I don't think your inability to attend should prevent you from asking that your question be put to the meeting, DaveP or asking that you receive a copy of the reply given to the meeting.

Jim we are currently in a £1500 minimum penalty with Companies House.

DaveP wrote:Jim we are currently in a £1500 minimum penalty with Companies House.

I am not an accountant, but as I understand it, the maximum penalty for a private company limited by guarantee is £1500. I know it's not good and you are right to be concerned, but I think the comment about "thousands of pounds in penalties" is unnecessarily alarming.

The penalty where the accounts are filed more than six months late is a fixed £1500 but if there hvae been previous failures these can be doubled. I don't know the filing history I'm afraid.

There is also the matter of the failure being a criminal offence....................

Anyway enough of the scaremongering lets just sweep it all under the carpet as usual. You know I've tried so many times to get an answer out of the BOD perhaps its no wonder I've not had a notice of the AGM