Potential Investor

[Spanner]

The club stated last night no offer was ever made and it didn't even reach the stage of negotiating offers.

The reason no offer was made (according to Mr Casson) was that the club were unable to give him an up to date set of accounts. We could have had a serious and attractive offer to debate and vote on if the financial management of the club wasn't such a shambles.

AGM in February is the time for discussing this.

That's the AGM that was due to be held in December? And postponed to January? And now February is it? No doubt that will become March, then April, ...

Too busy giving themselves pointless grandiose job titles to keep the accounts up to date and prepare the AGM notices perhaps.

[Uncle Peter]

The reason no offer was made (according to Mr Casson) was that the club were unable to give him an up to date set of accounts. We could have had a serious and attractive offer to debate and vote on if the financial management of the club wasn't such a shambles.

That's just not the case. This will be something we will cover at the agm

That's the AGM that was due to be held in December? And postponed to January? And now February is it? No doubt that will become March, then April, ...

Too busy giving themselves pointless grandiose job titles to keep the accounts up to date and prepare the AGM notices perhaps.

The reason for the delay, as came out last night, is that Because Stephen Leonard puts a lot of work in free for the club the accounts simply weren't ready due to workloads and time constraints. That's not blaming him, it's simply a fact!

The accounts will be early, and lodged with companies house before the deadline.

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

[Spanner]

The reason no offer was made (according to Mr Casson) was that the club were unable to give him an up to date set of accounts. We could have had a serious and attractive offer to debate and vote on if the financial management of the club wasn't such a shambles.

That's just not the case. This will be something we will cover at the agm

So, just to be clear, you're saying that the club gave Mr Casson all the financial information he requested?

[Uncle Peter]

That's just not the case. This will be something we will cover at the agm

So, just to be clear, you're saying that the club gave Mr Casson all the financial information he requested?

I'm saying things didn't progress to a stage where they would be needed.

I can't say much more than that until I'm sure we won't end up in court because of the nda.

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[Spanner]

I'm saying things didn't progress to a stage where they would be needed.

I can't say much more than that until I'm sure we won't end up in court because of the nda.

Ok, thanks for the reply.

[Fartvs Antiqvvs]

The club stated last night no offer was ever made and it didn't even reach the stage of negotiating offers.

The reason no offer was made (according to Mr Casson) was that the club were unable to give him an up to date set of accounts. We could have had a serious and attractive offer to debate and vote on if the financial management of the club wasn't such a shambles.

AGM in February is the time for discussing this.

That's the AGM that was due to be held in December? And postponed to January? And now February is it? No doubt that will become March, then April, ...

Too busy giving themselves pointless grandiose job titles to keep the accounts up to date and prepare the AGM notices perhaps.

Sounds a bit like taking the lead from the EU methodology, does that lads.

[mickmike wilson]

The quote here worries me a bit, "If you want to make a club that’s going to grow they are going to have to be prepared to have some kind of vehicle that can take investment and something that is attractive to people –------- they want to put money in with the possibility that if the whole thing grows they will get their money back with interest"

Every business man knows the likely hood of getting a above board and legal return on your investment is highly unlikely in Football in general never mind the money draining pit that is non-league.

Hope the guy is genuine but like other have previously said we need cast iron legal contracts safe guarding our ground and infrastructure.

He could win many friends & influence people within the Borough by donating 5 figures sums to the MMA crew or the Youth Development systems :flag:

[John Very Little]

If he pays off the debt secured on the ground and then pays a further £400k as some are suggesting where does the money go?
To the Keens? Divided between the membership?

The proposed owner would have to make an offer that was at the very least the total of what the debts are before the FA would allow the transfer of the old club to the new one. I'd hope any surplus would be divided equally between the members but I'm not 100% certain on the legal position of this?

As mentioned they never really got to talking about any figures but the state of the company or any company can be deduced from doing the various company checks that are available. The latest accounts we'll see at the AGM on Feb 28th, admittedly they will only be till June 30th 2013 though as that's all the club need to do.

[Kieran]

If he pays off the debt secured on the ground and then pays a further £400k as some are suggesting where does the money go?
To the Keens? Divided between the membership?

The proposed owner would have to make an offer that was at the very least the total of what the debts are before the FA would allow the transfer of the old club to the new one. I'd hope any surplus would be divided equally between the members but I'm not 100% certain on the legal position of this?.

I don't think thats how it would work, in fact i'm 99% sure it wouldn't.

I'm like Spongebob in that I'm not sure where exactly people are expting any surplus to go.

[patrickstarfish]

The reason no offer was made (according to Mr Casson) was that the club were unable to give him an up to date set of accounts. We could have had a serious and attractive offer to debate and vote on if the financial management of the club wasn't such a shambles.

That's just not the case. This will be something we will cover at the agm

That's the AGM that was due to be held in December? And postponed to January? And now February is it? No doubt that will become March, then April, ...

Too busy giving themselves pointless grandiose job titles to keep the accounts up to date and prepare the AGM notices perhaps.

The reason for the delay, as came out last night, is that Because Stephen Leonard puts a lot of work in free for the club the accounts simply weren't ready due to workloads and time constraints. That's not blaming him, it's simply a fact!

The accounts will be early, and lodged with companies house before the deadline.

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

[Dalton Bluebird]

People keep mentioning surplus money, why should there be any?

If a buyer came in and paid off all the debts and the mortgage to leave the club debt free, plus and 'amount' to cover the rest of the value of the club, why should there be any surplus.

Surely people aren't expecting to go from massive debt to wiping the slate clean and making a profit.

[Ste Story]

The proposed owner would have to make an offer that was at the very least the total of what the debts are before the FA would allow the transfer of the old club to the new one. I'd hope any surplus would be divided equally between the members but I'm not 100% certain on the legal position of this?.

I don't think thats how it would work, in fact i'm 99% sure it wouldn't.

I'm like Spongebob in that I'm not sure where exactly people are expting any surplus to go.

I doubt you could even do that legally. There's a reason you can't change a company from one limited by guarantee to one limited by share capital which I'd hazard a guess would prevent you from distributing capital or profit to members...

On a similar vein that's what's confusing about the term "value" being used when talking about the club, there's no body to "buy the club" from, so it can't have any true "value" in that sense, other than the costs and benefits to someone taking it on as a going concern. Right now, with the debentures/mortage debt totally if not surpassing the value of the ground, we as a members company don't own our ground anymore then someone who has just taken out a mortgage on a new property owns their house.

Due to the debts etc, the only "value" there would be in someone taking control of the club is the right to play football, ability to make money from that, and perhaps the brand itself of Barrow AFC, so from that aspect Mr Casson is probably correct in looking to value the club as a business rather than totting up all the fixtures/fittings/land etc, because if you do that and contrast it with the debts we have you're probably left with a deficit anyway.

[Dalton Bluebird]

Pardon me for being thick, but when big clubs have gone from privately owned shares to being listed on the stock market, the FA have allowed this.

The FA have also allowed American speculators to come in and buy out a premiership club (that was in profit for years) with money they didn't have and then transfer the debt to the club.

[audigex]

You can fully own a ground while being liable for debts secured on it.

If we wound the club up right now, we'd probably have to sell the ground to meet the debts - but while we're running and making repayments, we own that ground. We just happen to owe money which is secured against it. The Furness Building Society Stadium no more belongs to the Furness Building Society than my next house will belong to Barclays (or whoever I get a mortgage from). Despite the name.

As soon as payments stop, all bets are off with regards to ownership of the ground... but if we're running as a club, the ground is still an asset and the debts are still debts. The two are no more linked than anyone else with a mortgage, and the value of the club is still essentially the assets (which for us is basically just the ground+fittings), minus the debts/liabilities, plus/minus any potential profits or losses.

The same as with any business, there is an aspect of the value which is subjective: the value of the name, recognisability, branding, potential profit making etc... I saw an interesting problem at work recently where a profitable company with a turnover of several million pounds per year and intellectual property probably worth millions more, was valued at about the price of about a dozen laptops, a server and a coffee machine... because they were the only fungible assets. Anyone with any sense would realise the company was worth far more than that, but that's all it could be officially valued at.

[mickmike wilson]

So, just to be clear, you're saying that the club gave Mr Casson all the financial information he requested?

I'm saying things didn't progress to a stage where they would be needed.

If things had progressed to a stage where they were needed, were they ready ?