Barrow AFC.net

Steelworks End wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:05 pm Can't have been anything too controversial last night; if there had been the usual suspects would be into their tenth page of moans on at least three different threads.

Yes clarifying that alot of assumptions were right
The main one to me was the loss of Sean Riley who I said seemed to keep players fit a thing I was ridiculed for when I raised it.
Basically Paul Casson has taken a big challenge on far more than he thought.
It makes sense that he just makes do and mend with the ground

Things I would like to know and it not a criticism because it will be commercially sensitive.
I would like to see a wage bill for players and any termination payments taken out.It should not include any other staff or travel/ expenses

As Paul Casson was in the US did the CEO Austin not oversee the club finances?
I tried to find the average salary Torquay were paying about £400 average that was 2015 . That equates to do about £21000 X 20 players so that's £420000
per season add 20 percent inflation till now and better wage bill about 504000

The recruitment of players from far and wide will have added to costs
Quite easy to see why he gave Moore the job otherwise more wasted money.
What's the worst that could happen if he does not succeed we get relegated and we can reduce costs more in terms of wage bill.
Interesting few months

HenneysKnee wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:41 pm Wages are higher this year than last??? We got real value for money last year then!

Near £1mil wage bill at this level is suicide!

What is crucial is having a plan to develop the club. Was there any positive indication last night that there is something in place.

Its ok saying what will be done, I think there is far more power in saying how it will be done.

Easy saying " yeah we will sort out media" . Thats great but how will that be done?

The Real Slim a former member of this forum wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:44 pm

Easy saying " yeah we will sort out media" . Thats great but how will that be done?

That's where it needs someone with a follow up question along the lines you suggest but people generally accept what is fed to them.

Mind you a question like 'how are you going to do it and when?' would have probably been answered with the usual corporate goobledook like 'we are going to formulate a plan'. In other words they haven't a clue, and apologies if that's being negative Mr Casson (either one) but the supporters who've supported Barrow during thin and thin (sic) have seen and heard it all before.

The Real Slim a former member of this forum wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:49 pm

HenneysKnee wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:41 pm Wages are higher this year than last??? We got real value for money last year then!

Near £1mil wage bill at this level is suicide!

Havent you been criticising Casson for the last 9months for not investing in MORE players / wages in January? Glad to see that conspiracy theory was blown out of the water last night anyway

Leo wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:24 pm

The Real Slim a former member of this forum wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:49 pm

Near £1mil wage bill at this level is suicide!

Havent you been criticising Casson for the last 9months for not investing in MORE players / wages in January? Glad to see that conspiracy theory was blown out of the water last night anyway

well spending £100k on desperate loan players is a bitsilly when in January it could have been sorted properly.

I also dont think that the average wage this season is £800 a week

glasgow_blue wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:32 am £900k a year sounds a hell of a lot, is that just player wages or does ir cover all employees?

Nothing out of the ordinary for this league. The average salary for Division 2 players in 2014-15 was £40,300 not including performance or appearance bonuses which would increase the salary significantly. Many of the better National League players are earning over £1000 per week now. A small squad of 20 players on an average of £40,000 per year takes you up to £800,000 for the year. The owners decided the club should go full-time and £40,000 isn't a fantastic salary these days. I reached earnings as high as £60,000 per year over 20 years ago as a Computer Programmer and earned over £40,000 for many years and I certainly wasn't anywhere near the top of the ladder in IT. If you consider that any player would expect a premium to play at Barrow with it's geography and the travelling involved even if it's just for the extra travelling from Manchester to home matches I'm amazed that any owner wouldn't be aware that salaries would be in that ballpark. The only way to cut that down is to either go back to part-time and/or move down the pyramid!

The Real Slim a former member of this forum wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:49 pm

HenneysKnee wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:41 pm Wages are higher this year than last??? We got real value for money last year then!

Near £1mil wage bill at this level is suicide!

A 900,000 wage bill in this league is not that unusual, especially for clubs with promotion ambitions. Having 1200 gates is suicide as you put it.

Sefton Aubergine wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:19 pm

The Real Slim a former member of this forum wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:49 pm

Near £1mil wage bill at this level is suicide!

A 900,000 wage bill in this league is not that unusual, especially for clubs with promotion ambitions. Having 1200 gates is suicide as you put it.

I might add that relatively small numbers can make quite a difference to the big numbers... An extra 500 pay on the gate adults would be worth around £200,000 to the club on admission only.

russell_anderson wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:17 pm

glasgow_blue wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:32 am £900k a year sounds a hell of a lot, is that just player wages or does ir cover all employees?

Nothing out of the ordinary for this league. The average salary for Division 2 players in 2014-15 was £40,300 not including performance or appearance bonuses which would increase the salary significantly. Many of the better National League players are earning over £1000 per week now. A small squad of 20 players on an average of £40,000 per year takes you up to £800,000 for the year. The owners decided the club should go full-time and £40,000 isn't a fantastic salary these days. I reached earnings as high as £60,000 per year over 20 years ago as a Computer Programmer and earned over £40,000 for many years and I certainly wasn't anywhere near the top of the ladder in IT. If you consider that any player would expect a premium to play at Barrow with it's geography and the travelling involved even if it's just for the extra travelling from Manchester to home matches I'm amazed that any owner wouldn't be aware that salaries would be in that ballpark. The only way to cut that down is to either go back to part-time and/or move down the pyramid!

Comparing a computer programmers wage with a footballer not really relevant as you are comparing different skills .
You will be quite aware you can pull the wool over Management as they do not know anything about programming.
I talked to a programmer who worked for a Swiss Bank on £250000 about 25 years ago.He told the system was rubbish but he was getting well paid and not going to tell them as the saying goes out of Chaos comes cash
A bad footballer is easily spotted.
A bulls####er alot harder to spot, especially as a contractor will have gone before the system fails to meet the requirements

Sefton Aubergine wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:19 pm

The Real Slim a former member of this forum wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:49 pm

Near £1mil wage bill at this level is suicide!

A 900,000 wage bill in this league is not that unusual, especially for clubs with promotion ambitions. Having 1200 gates is suicide as you put it.

And we haven't promotion ambitions either, our battle is down the other end

Pedro wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:56 pm

russell_anderson wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:17 pm Nothing out of the ordinary for this league. The average salary for Division 2 players in 2014-15 was £40,300 not including performance or appearance bonuses which would increase the salary significantly. Many of the better National League players are earning over £1000 per week now. A small squad of 20 players on an average of £40,000 per year takes you up to £800,000 for the year. The owners decided the club should go full-time and £40,000 isn't a fantastic salary these days. I reached earnings as high as £60,000 per year over 20 years ago as a Computer Programmer and earned over £40,000 for many years and I certainly wasn't anywhere near the top of the ladder in IT. If you consider that any player would expect a premium to play at Barrow with it's geography and the travelling involved even if it's just for the extra travelling from Manchester to home matches I'm amazed that any owner wouldn't be aware that salaries would be in that ballpark. The only way to cut that down is to either go back to part-time and/or move down the pyramid!

Comparing a computer programmers wage with a footballer not really relevant as you are comparing different skills .
You will be quite aware you can pull the wool over Management as they do not know anything about programming.
I talked to a programmer who worked for a Swiss Bank on £250000 about 25 years ago.He told the system was rubbish but he was getting well paid and not going to tell them as the saying goes out of Chaos comes cash
A bad footballer is easily spotted.
A bulls####er alot harder to spot, especially as a contractor will have gone before the system fails to meet the requirements

There's plenty of bad footballers who aren't spotted either and we've had a few of them! The point is that these days £40,000 isn't a huge salary for many full-time jobs and it definitely isn't for National League footballers.

The Real Slim a former member of this forum wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:08 pm

EHB wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:56 pm Why are so many so bothered About the director of football gig? Most clubs have them. It makes sense to have someone dealing with that side of the business.

When you say most can you name some?

I'm under the belief there aren't many Head Coaches working with DOF's in this league for instance.

I don't know their names no, most tend not to have a high profile. Just done a basic Google search and it appears the majority of premier league clubs have them.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/201 ... -football/

Perhaps there isn't a need for someone to do that role at our level. But what I have found in the sports industry is that typically, as a general rule, coaches aren't particularly great business people. So someone to help with the actual business side of budget management frees the coach to do what they do best.

Ultimately it comes down to personalities. Some people like total control , I would put cox in this bracket. Others are happy to delegate.