Barrow AFC.net

I'm not sure why people regularly throw that line out about "there being no replacement" not being a good reason to keep him... Of course it is

If there is a good replacement out there who'd work to our constraints and problems then fine but if there is not then Bayliss is better then having say Russell Dodd on the touchline.

There probably are managers out there who could and should replace him so it's not an issue and the point is valid but it's such a lazy line to just reply with "that's no reason to keep him"... Surely the better line would be "we don't know who's out there until we go look" which is the viewpoint I'd probably take now.

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Most topics which start on this website revert back to the criticism of Dave Bayliss, but after half a dozen games it lacks credibility and logic. Even if the season was now turned on its head and Barrow finished in the top four, his critics would still fail to acknowledge the team’s achievement. Without the ‘ Bayliss Witch Hunt’ and their axe to grind, their comments, and we know who most of them are on this site, would be extremely limited and they would have to turn their attention to another one of their pet hates.
Don’t get me wrong I was critical of the manager on several occasions last year and I’m not sure if he is the right man for the job but I think some breathing space is permitted for a team put together on a small budget two weeks before the season started.
The logic of this plea for the team and the manager to be give more time, was brought into context tonight by a comment on Sky Sports News by the Tottenham manager Andre Villas Boas, having spent £110 million on his new squad for the coming season he stated that ‘his squad would win nothing this year and they needed twelve months to bond together as a team’. How the other half lives, how long would he need if the team trained to nights per week, how the other half lives.
Perhaps a little more patience would not be too much to ask, before you try and burn the witch.

K_BFC, I admire your willingness to stick your head above the parapet and fight Bayliss' corner against the relentless cannon fire of the dissenters here, but TBH, having been a Bayliss supporter for a long time, I'm finding it more and more difficult to back him now.

You say...

K_BFC wrote:...there is no cast iron reason to get rid of him.

But there is. Reg gave four on the previous page. Here they are again...

Reg wrote:1. He has proven time and again that he is not good at revamping the squad.
2. He has proved beyond question that he is incapable of getting a side to play attractive football.
3. He has proved time and again that he is devoid of man management skills.
4. He constantly blames the players when we don't win.

The evidence mounts...

K_BFC wrote:We seriously don't know if the loss of Sheridan had anything to do with the teams failure, but from the outside it does look like that.

It certainly does look that way. It can't be merely coincidental that we started to go downhill once he left. You probably know the old saying "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then chances are it is a duck". The duck in this case is Bayliss' dismal record sans Sheridan. Apart from that little flurry immediately following Sheridan's departure when Bayliss won 'Manager of the Month' it was relegation form for the last couple of months of the 2011-12 season, relegation form for all last season (that much is indisputable) and its not much better than relegation form now - in a lower league! Even without the previous four reasons, continued unrelenting relegation form is enough to get just about any other manager in the country the sack.

So against all this, the case for the defence really does begin to look like "just excuses"...

K_BFC wrote:A few games in he lets a few go we loose Hulbert, and brings in a few loan players... they simply need a bit more time, but no one is that patient these days.

The past is the past and is not part of this season...

Yes, I would love to believe that they just need a bit of time, but its that past record that suggests that once that bit of time (how long? two weeks, 'til Christmas) has gone by, things will still be exactly the same.

And TBH, some of the arguments aren't really arguments at all, just appeals to emotion...

The witch hunt to get Bayliss out is only going to end in tears...

...or what come across as attempts to suppress dissent "for the good of the club" (though, in fairness, I'm sure that's not your intention)...

...and Barrow football club will only suffer due to the squabbling.

Internal fighting always pulls clubs apart in these situations as a section of fans starts to decent... We need to get behind the team and support it not blast holes in it's staff undermining any progress they are trying to make.

...or because it makes us look like a laughing stock to supporters of other clubs:

Rest of the teams will be laughing at Barrow fans for the attitude that is being shown.

No, they're not. Apart from the odd saddo who comes here to report back to the Workington Reds forum, they don't know and if they did I doubt if they would care.

...or just sewing the seeds of doubt that we can do better:

Know any realistic replacements given the clubs current status?

Well, no, but then I'm not "in the business". I don't share some posters' pessimism that there's no-one halfway decent out there who would want the job.

So, sorry, I'm going along with Burnzio's fat-bird analogy on this one.

45YEARS+ wrote:...Even if the season was now turned on its head and Barrow finished in the top four, his critics would still fail to acknowledge the team’s achievement.

Where's the "credibility and logic" in that opinion?

45YEARS+ wrote: Perhaps a little more patience would not be too much to ask, before you try and burn the witch.

Aren't "male witches" worlocks?

How appropriate.

People assumed our budget was low last season - it wasn't as low as DB wanted to make out that's for sure certainly not bottom three

The assumption now is that the budget is low - I'm sure a director on here has already said it isn't

The fact we put a team together 2 weeks before the season is entirely due the managers and BOD running a club in the short term it's not as it Bayliss arrived 2 weeks before the season

I've lost all confidence in his ability to manage the club - it's sad that people have now started to turn their backs on the club and don't want to watch boring negetive football

Ste Story wrote:I'm not sure why people regularly throw that line out about "there being no replacement" not being a good reason to keep him... Of course it is

If there is a good replacement out there who'd work to our constraints and problems then fine but if there is not then Bayliss is better then having say Russell Dodd on the touchline.

There probably are managers out there who could and should replace him so it's not an issue and the point is valid but it's such a lazy line to just reply with "that's no reason to keep him"... Surely the better line would be "we don't know who's out there until we go look" which is the viewpoint I'd probably take now.

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There will always be replacements available.

That is the point that folk are making when they respond to the initial cliche with the standard cliched reply.

If you want to argue about semantics, that's fine but that's all they are, semantics.

45YEARS+ wrote:I think some breathing space is permitted for a team put together on a small budget two weeks before the season started.

Are you for real?

The fact that the comment has a grain of truth in it only serves to damn Bayliss even more. He had 4 months or more to put a squad together. The fact we're panic signing loan players shows just what a poor job he made of it.

The logic of this plea for the team and the manager to be give more time, was brought into context tonight by a comment on Sky Sports News by the Tottenham manager Andre Villas Boas, having spent £110 million on his new squad for the coming season he stated that ‘his squad would win nothing this year and they needed twelve months to bond together as a team’. [/quote]

Just because he said it, it doesn't make it true.

He's just buying time for himself in case they have a bad season.

Anyone can see through stuff like that and if they can't, they probably still believe in Father Christmas.

Arvo wrote:K_BFC, I admire your willingness to stick your head above the parapet and fight Bayliss' corner against the relentless cannon fire of the dissenters here, but TBH, having been a Bayliss supporter for a long time, I'm finding it more and more difficult to back him now.

Not trying to get shot on his behalf like, I just think he needs to be given fresh start as we are entering a new period of the clubs history and the club has tried to start over again. Everything is getting way too negative and no one is recognising the positives. Unless there are demonstrations from the terrace then I doubt he is going anywhere. He is obviously on his last chance, as he only has a one year deal. We are stuck with him, if he fails miserably then I would fully expect him to be shown the door and a replacement sort.

The points you quote from Reg are rather subjective and not cast iron reasons. Points 3 & 4 are pretty much the same thing.

Arvo wrote: what come across as attempts to suppress dissent "for the good of the club" (though, in fairness, I'm sure that's not your intention)...

...and Barrow football club will only suffer due to the squabbling.

Internal fighting always pulls clubs apart in these situations as a section of fans starts to decent... We need to get behind the team and support it not blast holes in it's staff undermining any progress they are trying to make.

...or because it makes us look like a laughing stock to supporters of other clubs:

Rest of the teams will be laughing at Barrow fans for the attitude that is being shown.

No, they're not.

Correct not my intention at all, debate brings things out and can iron things out, for good or ill we all need to talk about what we think.

The internet can however give people the impression that everyone is on the same side or at war, when neither is the case. We seem to be developing a very anti-Bayliss stance on this forum and anyone that says otherwise is shot down and responses simply rubbished. Everyone is entitled to their view but this forum is only part of the Barrow support, many don't read it and some don't even know of it's existence despite the number of times the NWEM mentions it. Sticking my head above the parapet I think is the correct analogy at the moment. The flak barrage you get for typing anything is stifling debate and causing some to make statements along the lines of, not coming back to this forum again. When that starts happening things are going a bit too far. Some are simply not posting anything about it any more and the barrage has already caused one member of the club to withdrawn from the forum altogether. Considered a cop out by many but really the only sensible thing to do, rather than get drawn into endless and pointless battles. I just hope things calm down a bit and the team comes good or if it doesn't, Bayliss waves the white flag.

In amongst all that, I appreciate you candid response Avro.

By the way... I know we are not a big target so we don't get that many trolls, but I've talked to a Telford fan and an Alty fan this week in person and in their own little groups some are definitely laughing at us, their words.