Barrow AFC.net

Posted: **Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:08 pm**

Big E wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:02 pm
If it does fail so be it - we were happy enough to support them last year when it was going well, time we repaid that faith...

This all night long.

Posted: **Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:32 pm**

Hadrian wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:56 pm Always check facts - in what way did DD have a dreadful record at Blackpool?

He held the reins for four games as caretaker manager when the team won two, drew one and lost one, a points per game haul which would put a team in the play off places in League Two at the moment.

Noted, though in truth one of the wins was against rock bottom basket case, Bolton, however they didn't have enough faith to give him the job permanently but retained his services as coach. Perhaps they thought they'd leave the gamble to another club...., He currently has managed 38 games and out of a possible 114 points has taken 41 points and has a managerial win percentage of around 16%. (Fact checked

)

Posted: **Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:37 pm**

spirit of 1990 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:08 pm
Big E wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:02 pm
If it does fail so be it - we were happy enough to support them last year when it was going well, time we repaid that faith...
This all night long.

So you would be happy to risk being relegated because last season went well? Twisted logic. Last season is history, it means nothing now, stop looking backwards and using the past to make excuses for the present.

Posted: **Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:15 pm**

Tavistock Bluebird wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:37 pm
spirit of 1990 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:08 pm

This all night long.
So you would be happy to risk being relegated because last season went well? Twisted logic. Last season is history, it means nothing now, stop looking backwards and using the past to make excuses for the present.

I have faith in the board... Think they have more to lose than you or i...

Posted: **Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:33 pm**

Big E wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:15 pm
Tavistock Bluebird wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:37 pm

So you would be happy to risk being relegated because last season went well? Twisted logic. Last season is history, it means nothing now, stop looking backwards and using the past to make excuses for the present.

I have faith in the board... Think they have more to lose than you or i...

Fair enough mate. Iceberg? What Icebe....

Posted: **Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:07 pm**

Tavistock Bluebird wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:37 pm
spirit of 1990 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:08 pm

This all night long.
So you would be happy to risk being relegated because last season went well? Twisted logic. Last season is history, it means nothing now, stop looking backwards and using the past to make excuses for the present.

Not for the first time I’m asking all of those asking for DD to be sacked....where is the money coming from for this course of action. Don’t roll out the “but can we afford to be relegated” line because that simply isn’t an answer.
I keep asking the same question but not one person has given any sort reply that makes sense.
Back to your question, I’m giving the BoDs and DD my total backing, 100%. It’s a risk as you point out, it’d also be a risk to pay him off and bring in another manager, that could be far more damaging to the long term survival of the club.

So, where is the money coming from?

Posted: **Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:22 pm**

Tavistock Bluebird wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:33 pm
Big E wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:15 pm

I have faith in the board... Think they have more to lose than you or i...
Fair enough mate. Iceberg? What Icebe....

If the group of successful local businessmen who spent best part of two seasons ploughing time, effort and money into the club to get us back where we are felt Dunn was the right man, then i think as supporters its right we give them our 100% support.
I'll trust them to make the call if it's needed, rambling on here achieves absolutely nothing except to fuel unrest.

Posted: **Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:23 pm**

spirit of 1990 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:07 pm
Tavistock Bluebird wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:37 pm

So you would be happy to risk being relegated because last season went well? Twisted logic. Last season is history, it means nothing now, stop looking backwards and using the past to make excuses for the present.
Not for the first time I’m asking all of those asking for DD to be sacked....where is the money coming from for this course of action. Don’t roll out the “but can we afford to be relegated” line because that simply isn’t an answer.
I keep asking the same question but not one person has given any sort reply that makes sense.
Back to your question, I’m giving the BoDs and DD my total backing, 100%. It’s a risk as you point out, it’d also be a risk to pay him off and bring in another manager, that could be far more damaging to the long term survival of the club.

So, where is the money coming from?

Interesting that your challenge back to people always seems to be “where is the money coming from?” as opposed to defending his actual managerial performance so far this season. Suggests that you know we can’t afford to sack him, yet equally know he isn’t performing well enough to sustain the role to a successful capacity.

Posted: **Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:33 pm**

The money, spirit, could come from the win bonuses in the FA Cup - Wimbledon, Crawley - loadsamoney. Oh, but if we win those he'd be the best thing since sliced bread so who would want him to go? Ah, but lose them and he has to go. But we can't because we haven't got the win money. It's Catch-22.

Posted: **Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:52 pm**

spirit of 1990 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:07 pm
Tavistock Bluebird wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:37 pm

So you would be happy to risk being relegated because last season went well? Twisted logic. Last season is history, it means nothing now, stop looking backwards and using the past to make excuses for the present.
Not for the first time I’m asking all of those asking for DD to be sacked....where is the money coming from for this course of action. Don’t roll out the “but can we afford to be relegated” line because that simply isn’t an answer.
I keep asking the same question but not one person has given any sort reply that makes sense.
Back to your question, I’m giving the BoDs and DD my total backing, 100%. It’s a risk as you point out, it’d also be a risk to pay him off and bring in another manager, that could be far more damaging to the long term survival of the club.

So, where is the money coming from?

Agree with most of this Spirit. But I think a lot of people are having to adjust to the reality of our position which for some might be difficult to accept. I'm pretty sure the BoD would have foreseen this as a possibility if not a probability though and they have nevertheless been secure in their support through very difficult times. I doubt they will be running around HS wide eyed and screaming at this point. And I doubt that David Dunn is (yet) close to an exit.

We achieve this shot at League status partly because we overachieved last season. Despite what Evatt said about our potential, in actual fact he had the squad playing at its absolute limits especially towards the end. We became used to having a team that could repeat those levels and now we expect the same from Dunn. In my opinion, whilst he may have a decent footballing brain, he has not really demonstrated (through our performances) that he is a significantly motivational or inspirational manager, which, when you have budget limitations can act as an "Xtra" factor in a League campaign. Its a very long season but at this point in it, what you are seeing is not an aberration, it the reality of our current capabilities. We should by now be getting used to this because for a little while the signs are that whilst at our best we are about adequate, for much of the time we will be a nearly team. This is and will continue to be infuriating but I fear its just part of the ride.

My only caveat would be the idea that David Dunn's removal from a cost perspective should be seen as being financially prohibitive. If he's too expensive to fire then he was too expensive to hire in the first place and the BoD themselves would and should have to answer for why he was taken on in the first place. But as Spirit says the owners made the choice and its substantially their investment that is at risk. I'm sure this issue will be therefore focusing their attention.

Posted: **Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:08 pm**

Suffolk Blue wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:52 pm
spirit of 1990 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:07 pm

Not for the first time I’m asking all of those asking for DD to be sacked....where is the money coming from for this course of action. Don’t roll out the “but can we afford to be relegated” line because that simply isn’t an answer.
I keep asking the same question but not one person has given any sort reply that makes sense.
Back to your question, I’m giving the BoDs and DD my total backing, 100%. It’s a risk as you point out, it’d also be a risk to pay him off and bring in another manager, that could be far more damaging to the long term survival of the club.

So, where is the money coming from?
Agree with most of this Spirit. But I think a lot of people are having to adjust to the reality of our position which for some might be difficult to accept. I'm pretty sure the BoD would have foreseen this as a possibility if not a probability though and they have nevertheless been secure in their support through very difficult times. I doubt they will be running around HS wide eyed and screaming at this point. And I doubt that David Dunn is (yet) close to an exit.

We achieve this shot at League status partly because we overachieved last season. Despite what Evatt said about our potential, in actual fact he had the squad playing at its absolute limits especially towards the end. We became used to having a team that could repeat those levels and now we expect the same from Dunn. In my opinion, whilst he may have a decent footballing brain, he has not really demonstrated (through our performances) that he is a significantly motivational or inspirational manager, which, when you have budget limitations can act as an "Xtra" factor in a League campaign. Its a very long season but at this point in it, what you are seeing is not an aberration, it the reality of our current capabilities. We should by now be getting used to this because for a little while the signs are that whilst at our best we are about adequate, for much of the time we will be a nearly team. This is and will continue to be infuriating but I fear its just part of the ride.

My only caveat would be the idea that David Dunn's removal from a cost perspective should be seen as being financially prohibitive. If he's too expensive to fire then he was too expensive to hire in the first place and the BoD themselves would and should have to answer for why he was taken on in the first place. But as Spirit says the owners made the choice and its substantially their investment that is at risk. I'm sure this issue will be therefore focusing their attention.

Very well written and thoughtful

Posted: **Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:26 pm**

Apart from the bit about overachieving with Evatt. We didn't overachieve. He set the standards and his expectations high, we had it right on and off the pitch. There was no over achievement about it.

Posted: **Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:38 pm**

Jonty, as much as I admire your optimism I don't think you're getting that there is a difference between ambition and expectation. When you look at some of the resources, budgets etc of some of the teams we were up against last season (i.e Notts County) I think it's fair to say we weren't expected to win the league and in that sense we overachieved. Same again this season, our ambition is obviously to finish as high as we can but it's reasonable enough to expect us to finish at the lower end of the table.

As I said in the original post our current form suggests we will struggle to stay up with less than a point per game, hence why Dunn needs to alter the system as we are quite simply shipping too many goals to expect the points tally to tick over as we need it to.

Posted: **Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:12 am**

Jonty wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:26 pm Apart from the bit about overachieving with Evatt. We didn't overachieve. He set the standards and his expectations high, we had it right on and off the pitch. There was no over achievement about it.

I agree. The worst we would have finished would have been second and teams promoted from the National League have generally done well in EFL 2 so my expectations were very high had Evatt stayed and had we kept the same players.
However, if you consider how little Hardcastle has played then virtually our whole midfield has been ripped out and that wasn't the fault of the board or David Dunn as Rooney obviously was determined to leave and White had been on loan and was then snapped up by Evatt for Bolton. Once Evatt, Rooney and White didn't return my expectations reduced but I still expected a mid-table position so IMO we are definitely under-achieving because to be perfectly honest although I don't think we have played any team as bad as the bottom few in the National League, I also don't think we have played any better than most of the NL top half teams from last season.
I certainly agree with your point about the high standards and expectations demanded by Evatt which produces results and is why, even after a bad start, I expect to see Bolton very near the top at the end of the season even with the same players who were losing regularly at the start of the season.

Posted: **Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:01 am**

A.B. wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:23 pm
spirit of 1990 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:07 pm

Not for the first time I’m asking all of those asking for DD to be sacked....where is the money coming from for this course of action. Don’t roll out the “but can we afford to be relegated” line because that simply isn’t an answer.
I keep asking the same question but not one person has given any sort reply that makes sense.
Back to your question, I’m giving the BoDs and DD my total backing, 100%. It’s a risk as you point out, it’d also be a risk to pay him off and bring in another manager, that could be far more damaging to the long term survival of the club.

So, where is the money coming from?
Interesting that your challenge back to people always seems to be “where is the money coming from?” as opposed to defending his actual managerial performance so far this season. Suggests that you know we can’t afford to sack him, yet equally know he isn’t performing well enough to sustain the role to a successful capacity.

I think my challenge back is a perfectly reasonable one, if people want DD sacked then I think it’s only fair they have some idea financially of how the owners would do that with all the costly work that they’ve done with virtually no income.
Regarding defending his managerial performance so far....it’s a hard one and it must be a cause for concern to the owners, but realistically how can people expect them to each find another 10% x 2 - 20% x 2 and 40% to pay off any fee due?
How I see it is the owners came in, threw their own cash at it, did things to the ground that two years ago we wouldn’t have believed could’ve been done, so for them reasons I’m 100% behind them.

I agree with virtually everything you posted there Suffolk Blue, the only bit I would like to add to would be the part where you mention if he was too expensive to fire, he was too expensive to hire. That might have been in their thoughts but I don’t for one minute think that at that particular moment in time they’d have thought that at the end of Nov we’d still have no supporters/match day income coming in.

When we’re eventually allowed back under no restrictions the people of this town need to flood through the gates no matter who is the manager or wherever we are in the league.

Barrow AFC.net

David Dunn

Re: David Dunn

Re: David Dunn

Re: David Dunn

Re: David Dunn

Re: David Dunn

Re: David Dunn

Re: David Dunn

Re: David Dunn

Re: David Dunn

Re: David Dunn

Re: David Dunn

Re: David Dunn

Re: David Dunn

Re: David Dunn

Re: David Dunn