Potential Investor

[PRR]

If nothing else this proves there is interest in the club and that the present set up may not be forever.

Whoever shows an interest in taking over will always have the same questions asked about their motivations, especially given the V**N saga. The fact that this guy is a Barrovian living in North America and still wants to take over shows a commitment to the club if nothing else. I doubt his motivation would be financial as there would be much easier ways of making money, especially if you've already got a fat back pocket.

I'd be concerned about the logistics and a lot of what he says, I'm sure, is just be to get supporters on board but at least he seems to have some sort of plan and has obviously looked at the financial figures, rather than just race in waving his willy in the air.

Probably a no go at this stage but offers hope for the future. The world is getting smaller, it might just work...

[patrickstarfish]

Typical Barrow fan logic on this thread...

Roar, roar! We are not happy.

Roar, roar! We need change.

Roar, roar! We don't trust the board.

Oh... Someone who is rich with good intentions wants to basically save us?

Roar, roar! We are not convinced and unhappy.

[Kieran]

After the first read of that article, and I WILL read it a few times more, it sounds a lot more promising than anything else that is on the horizon.
IF (get used to that word) there are assurances in place (and held by legal clauses etc...) that he will pay off the mortgage in full, pay off the director loans, offer to pay off the debenture holders and also the existing supplier creditors AND also that there will be specific development on the ground (floodlights, toilets, HSE) AND there is a set period of inputting a 5-figure sum monthly........then I don't see why it shouldn't be a quid sale.
The sale value is meaningless as far as I can tell. The money being earmarked for payment of loans/debts and development of the ground is all that matters IMO.

Lots to digest and further info needed but, for me, this looks like our future.

That is pretty close to my own thoughts.

What I don't understand is all the talk of what the board's value of the club/assets is, whether the deal is acceptable to the board or not etc. Surely it doesn't actually matter what the current board want? It's down to the members whether we are prepared to accept any proposal or not. The guy has indicated that he is prepared to hold an open meeting, so whats stopping this happening? Do it as far as I'm concerned.

I would want certain assurances putting in place, but I'm certainly very open to the idea based on that article alone.

These bits caught my eye, personally:

A Barrovian based in America claims he WAS willing....
...he EXPECTED to inject....
However, Casson ENDED HIS INTEREST in purchasing the club in September....
...WITHDREW HIS INTEREST....

Quote: "So right now there is literally nothing to invest in."

Not being deliberately negative, just that yesterday's Mail seemed to suggest something more imminently on the horizon.

But he also quite strongly indicates that he is likely to come back again in the near future, he certainly doesn't give the impression that it's dead in the water anyway.

[Leo]

Stinks of Vaughan-scenario to me

[Three Lie Ins]

Glad this is out in the open now but is he still gonna come back to try and convert the club to a shareholding one and become the owner or not?
In order to become a shareholding company a separate club would have to be set-up to do this and would presumably require consultation with the members? According to the last accounts the ground and buildings are worth around 620K but there are around 540K of debts of which around 250K are secured against the ground.

If this was voted through the prospective new owner has said he will pay off the 250K of secured debts and put the rest into the team so he'd still be left with 290K unsecured debts, a lot of which is loans from the current directors which he probably wouldn't have to do do much paying about unless he was taken to court and put the remainder into the infrastructure and team. He'd still effectively be buying the ground and buildings worth 620K for just 250K to pay off the pressing debts and once he's done this there is nothing to enforce him to put in however much else into the team he's said he will.

Even though the prospective new owner may have had good intentions and do what he said but once its a separate shareholding company its who he may sell onto in the future that I'd also have concerns about. TBH I'd like to see some sort of safeguards put in place to protect the ground for the future so that we aren't going to be vulnerable to losing the ground in say 5/10/15 years time. Would the prospective owner be interested if there were safeguards in place on the ground?

Could the Directors' loans be converted into capital in part or in whole? Could the current Directors comment on this please? If they truely believe thre ground is worth £600K plus shouldn't be a problem.

[Paul]

Stinks of Vaughan-scenario to me

Nothing like it. Read the full Evening mail article :-

1. He's not a Scouse crook.
2. He's an ex Barrovian who states that owning AFC would be a "Labour of Love &
that his bid is not for financial gain"
3. Where on earth are we going to get a better offer of investment to help the club
grow, & more importantly SURVIVE!!!

[Barrow Bluebirds]

Sounds alot better than the lot we have in now, at the moment with the current BOD we aren't going anyway anytime soon and plus the clubs in enough mess at the moment. This guy seems like he knows what he is actually doing and if anybody was going to get us back to the football league we need someone with money behind him...

[Paul]

Sounds alot better than the lot we have in now, at the moment with the current BOD we aren't going anyway anytime soon and plus the clubs in enough mess at the moment. This guy seems like he knows what he is actually doing and if anybody was going to get us back to the football league we need someone with money behind him...

"And so say all of us"

[Spanner]

What I don't understand is all the talk of what the board's value of the club/assets is, whether the deal is acceptable to the board or not etc. Surely it doesn't actually matter what the current board want? It's down to the members whether we are prepared to accept any proposal or not. The guy has indicated that he is prepared to hold an open meeting, so whats stopping this happening? Do it as far as I'm concerned.

I think you're right up to a point. I'm speculating a bit here, but I'd guess that the issue is that he's probably not prepared to pay enough to the current business (for the existing assets) to pay off the Directors' loans. As members I presume we could authorise the sale of the business under those terms. However the sticking point then probably becomes the transfer of the football registration to the new business which would effectively be escaping our footballing debts. The Directors would therefore first need to write off those loans for the FA to approve the transfer of the registration, hence why they probably hold the cards in practice.

A question I'd like to know the answer to is whether, in the event of the current club being liquidated, Mr Casson would be prepared to make an offer to the liquidator for the assets and set up a new club from scratch (starting lower down the pyramid)?

[Three Lie Ins]

The valuation of the ground is key. The £600K valuation is almost certainly on the basis of the land being available for redevelopment. However a valuation based on existing use would be lower, a lot lower, peanuts in fact. That is the point Casson makes in the Mail report when he asks how much is the business worth. Could the ground be sold with a legal caveat preventing disposal for development without a vote by a broader membership/supporters group? This would allow a more realistic existing use valuation facilitating a route for Casson's investment, and provide fans with the assurances they desire

[corner 91]

The valuation of the ground is key. The £600K valuation is almost certainly on the basis of the land being available for redevelopment. However a valuation based on existing use would be lower, a lot lower, peanuts in fact. That is the point Casson makes in the Mail report when he asks how much is the business worth. Could the ground be sold with a legal caveat preventing disposal for development without a vote by a broader membership/supporters group? This would allow a more realistic existing use valuation facilitating a route for Casson's investment, and provide fans with the assurances they desire

I think the valuation is as a football ground not as land for redevelopment and a caveat on the land only being used as a football ground has been mentioned on the forum recently. Not sure how correct that is though.

[bigmac95]

At the end of the day, we are a club in decline, the town itself is in decline. We need to grasp this opportunity and investigate this further. The current BOD are struggling - we can't even hold an AGM on time. WE CANNOT CONTINUE DOWN THE SAME PATH! we will cease to exist the club will fold or at best drop down the divisions. This could be a spark which reinvigorates the town and how the town perceive the club - attendances may rise, a full time general manager with necessary skills could attract extra sponsorship - and IMO the thought of there being a financial pressure being exerted can only make the club less wasteful and hopefully more profitable. I was too young to remember the Vaughan era, i can't pretend that i understand the worry people have with single ownership, but it must be said that not all ownerships end like ours did, there still is some loyalty (tony fernandes is still financing QPR as a fan and a businessman) and there is some success (fleetwood dare i say it, Man City). We no longer have the fan base for the type of club we all want to be, when this is looked at objectively without the fan side to me or any love to the club, its a no-brainer simply because i can't see a future without outside investment

[capman]

We're do you get that barrow is declining I reel do not get it when people say that

[bigmac95]

We're do you get that barrow is declining I reel do not get it when people say that

Population is declining it has declined by 10% in last 40 years, with a low youth retention rate when they leave the town, the average wage is one of the lowest in the country and the skill base is largely manual or unskilled (source: national census and studies of economic development)

perhaps a better way to put it would be barrow has stood still when a lot of the country has economically progressed, the largest industry and employer in the town is now retail, it has not reinvented itself

[Three Lie Ins]

The valuation of the ground is key. The £600K valuation is almost certainly on the basis of the land being available for redevelopment. However a valuation based on existing use would be lower, a lot lower, peanuts in fact. That is the point Casson makes in the Mail report when he asks how much is the business worth. Could the ground be sold with a legal caveat preventing disposal for development without a vote by a broader membership/supporters group? This would allow a more realistic existing use valuation facilitating a route for Casson's investment, and provide fans with the assurances they desire

I think the valuation is as a football ground not as land for redevelopment and a caveat on the land only being used as a football ground has been mentioned on the forum recently. Not sure how correct that is though.

I can't believe the £600k valuation is on existing use valuation. Such a valuation would take into account the discounted future expected earnings from operating a football business at HS. Since the Club is losing money or at best breaking even, this could result in a negative figure. The £600k must be on the basis of redevelopment.