Youth Development Next Season-Good News

[barrowaberdeen]

I'm putting this up partly to encourage Neil Doc, who was talking about it today, to come on and explain this properly- if I missed a thread about this then sorry..

Really pleased that our under 17's, as the club will be playing in a much more regular 'Floodlit League' with teams from our area, with home night games at HS. There is also a big link up with the sports element of a Furness College course, with some involved in that and also playing in a British Colleges league, all through the club. Also, 3 of the team will be involved in the Furness Select game.

This is a lot of progress in terms of amount of games played- it'll be a really tough year for the lads who play as they will be a year younger than most teams in the league they are going in to. Added to that Neil could tell me about lots of good young players who are currently at academies but are still kept in contact with in case they get released.

Perhaps the club will let us all in to the home games for free, or a quid or something, and also someone who goes can keep us all up to date?

Lots of people down there today getting on with this and that, and although the continued use/state of the pitch is a worry, at least it's not a ghost town and stuff is happening. :flag:

[Reg]

Sounds excellent.

At the risk of sounding like Jimmy Saville, kids are the only thing I'm really interested in right now.

The future of the club simply has be be centered around kids, both on and off the field.

I hope that those involved are well enough funded so that they stick at it and are really made to feel a big part of the club, rather than some token add-on, which has often felt like the case in the past.

[Jonty]

Have you seen the new floodlit all weather synthetic pitch at Channelside?- Not quite sure of the size but It really does look a top notch facility. I hope the youth sides get to use this pitch if that is part of the link up.

I too hope all the youth sides are fully involved and made to feel a full part of the club. It would be great if the first team could link up with the youth teams for training sessions with even the occasional Friday night before a home game the first team could stay the Friday night in Barrow and use this pitch (or Holker Street) for a training session with the U18 side coming down and getting involved. The next local hero could be out there.

[Barrowabc]

Sounds excellent.

At the risk of sounding like Jimmy Saville, kids are the only thing I'm really interested in right now.

The future of the club simply has be be centered around kids, both on and off the field.

I hope that those involved are well enough funded so that they stick at it and are really made to feel a big part of the club, rather than some token add-on, which has often felt like the case in the past.

I agree with all reg says and would like to think with in five year hopefully before we bring some local
Lads into the first team, as I don't think we've had a true local in the team for a good few year now,
I don't know if this is down to doc or not ? But it can be 'is' a good thing for our club,
Wouldn't it be nice in years to come having a few local lads playing and doing well for us
Playing for the badge with pride, :flag: :flag:

[1AFC]

Sounds excellent.

At the risk of sounding like Jimmy Saville, kids are the only thing I'm really interested in right now.

The future of the club simply has be be centered around kids, both on and off the field.

I hope that those involved are well enough funded so that they stick at it and are really made to feel a big part of the club, rather than some token add-on, which has often felt like the case in the past.

I agree with all reg says and would like to think with in five year hopefully before we bring some local
Lads into the first team, as I don't think we've had a true local in the team for a good few year now,
I don't know if this is down to doc or not ? But it can be 'is' a good thing for our club,
Wouldn't it be nice in years to come having a few local lads playing and doing well for us
Playing for the badge with pride, :flag: :flag:

Jason Walker?

If I'm being honest wont change a thing. Develop players for teams like Preston, Blackburn, Burnly, Bolton, Wigan etc etc. if we ever develop a half decent player they won't play for Barrow. Even if they live local, which is one of the biggest reasons for playing for your local team, they still will have to travel twice a week to Manc for training.

If you are young, have a job and enjoy few beers on the weekend while playing locally. Why would you give it in for a few extra grand to travel to Manc twice a week, and shitty grounds in the North on shitty cold Tuesday nights.

Train in Barrow, play at Barrow, is a must if you want to attract local lads.

[bluebird90]

I agree with all reg says and would like to think with in five year hopefully before we bring some local
Lads into the first team, as I don't think we've had a true local in the team for a good few year now,
I don't know if this is down to doc or not ? But it can be 'is' a good thing for our club,
Wouldn't it be nice in years to come having a few local lads playing and doing well for us
Playing for the badge with pride, :flag: :flag:

Jason Walker?

If I'm being honest wont change a thing. Develop players for teams like Preston, Blackburn, Burnly, Bolton, Wigan etc etc. if we ever develop a half decent player they won't play for Barrow. Even if they live local, which is one of the biggest reasons for playing for your local team, they still will have to travel twice a week to Manc for training.

If you are young, have a job and enjoy few beers on the weekend while playing locally. Why would you give it in for a few extra grand to travel to Manc twice a week, and [SwearFilter] grounds in the North on [SwearFilter] cold Tuesday nights.

Train in Barrow, play at Barrow, is a must if you want to attract local lads.

I can't see teams mentioned above being interested in players at under 17 age group, generally by this age if a kid is not already at a pro club, he will have very little chance of doing so.

For me this seems like the next step in a long term plan. Get the best local talent together and make the use of the facilities available.

The performance centre has so far concentrated on junior football under 11s - under 16s, now we are progressing that so that there is a pathway that extends beyond 16. The 16-18 year group is vital if we are to keep players on that pathway IMO. Very few players will go straight into a first team at any club at 16, but by 18/19, given the right development both on and off the pitch, they may be much stronger both physically and mentally to handle a higher level of football. We all know players that were excellent as kids but either drop out completely between 16-18 or dont progress any further, this should hopefully give an opportunity to progress that those kids and continue their development.

There is no guarentee first team players will come through the system, but what it does do is provide an opportunity and a clear route for local footballers, something that as a club we have been sadly lacking. In addition to this, keeping in contact with those at pro club academies is also vital, as those released at 16, usually have few options available.

Well done to Doc and his team on this one, I hope that the patience as a club and a set of fans is there to see this through.

[Barrowabc]

I agree with all reg says and would like to think with in five year hopefully before we bring some local
Lads into the first team, as I don't think we've had a true local in the team for a good few year now,
I don't know if this is down to doc or not ? But it can be 'is' a good thing for our club,
Wouldn't it be nice in years to come having a few local lads playing and doing well for us
Playing for the badge with pride, :flag: :flag:

Jason Walker?

If I'm being honest wont change a thing. Develop players for teams like Preston, Blackburn, Burnly, Bolton, Wigan etc etc. if we ever develop a half decent player they won't play for Barrow. Even if they live local, which is one of the biggest reasons for playing for your local team, they still will have to travel twice a week to Manc for training.

If you are young, have a job and enjoy few beers on the weekend while playing locally. Why would you give it in for a few extra grand to travel to Manc twice a week, and [SwearFilter] grounds in the North on [SwearFilter] cold Tuesday nights.

Train in Barrow, play at Barrow, is a must if you want to attract local lads.

Think you will find that Jason walker is from flookbourugh not barrow,same as cowps was
So in a sort of respect he was kind of local yet wasn't from the town it's self,
The last true local lads I beleave was hill,guy heff,phil morris,

I maybe wrong but don't think I am

[1AFC]

I can't see teams mentioned above being interested in players at under 17 age group, generally by this age if a kid is not already at a pro club, he will have very little chance of doing so.

For me this seems like the next step in a long term plan. Get the best local talent together and make the use of the facilities available.

The performance centre has so far concentrated on junior football under 11s - under 16s, now we are progressing that so that there is a pathway that extends beyond 16. The 16-18 year group is vital if we are to keep players on that pathway IMO. Very few players will go straight into a first team at any club at 16, but by 18/19, given the right development both on and off the pitch, they may be much stronger both physically and mentally to handle a higher level of football. We all know players that were excellent as kids but either drop out completely between 16-18 or dont progress any further, this should hopefully give an opportunity to progress that those kids and continue their development.

There is no guarentee first team players will come through the system, but what it does do is provide an opportunity and a clear route for local footballers, something that as a club we have been sadly lacking. In addition to this, keeping in contact with those at pro club academies is also vital, as those released at 16, usually have few options available.

Well done to Doc and his team on this one, I hope that the patience as a club and a set of fans is there to see this through.

Good point, very well put

[Ziggerzagger]

Neil Doc has done a good job but remember he's running a business so has more than the success of Barrow AFC at heart,the problem with the performance centre is that,unlike acadamies or centre of excellences,they do not bring new players in or get rid of current players despite there being better players out there.Once the team is picked(after a 2hour trial on 1 day) the kids lucky enough to get into the squad will stay in the squad despite their ability or inability.Kids develop at different rates and ages and because of this there are far better players playing locally than some of those chosen for the performance centre that once in the squad very very rarely get asked to leave.
In order to develop players they should be playing with and against better players or skilled players,this has been the ethos of every academy up and down the country but sadly not at the Barrow performance centre.For this reason we wont see the best of the local youngsters coming through as Neil has chosen his 15 players and will attempt to develop these players over the next few years.The players not chosen or late developers wont have a chance as there is no oppertunity to break into the performance centre team if your not chosen on selection day.Surely if the centre operated as an academy that brought in better players and released weaker ones then more players would have a better oppertunity.Most junior league managers will tell you that theres better players not getting a chance due the door being closed after the initial selection.Having said that i'm told that Neil has developed a couple of really good teams over the last 3 0r 4 years so credit where its due.I cant see the performance centre getting the best of local talent unless it operates like the academys but heres hoping that one day we get a few good local players good enough to play for their home town club.

[snortypig]

Neil Doc has done a good job but remember he's running a business so has more than the success of Barrow AFC at heart,the problem with the performance centre is that,unlike acadamies or centre of excellences,they do not bring new players in or get rid of current players despite there being better players out there.Once the team is picked(after a 2hour trial on 1 day) the kids lucky enough to get into the squad will stay in the squad despite their ability or inability.Kids develop at different rates and ages and because of this there are far better players playing locally than some of those chosen for the performance centre that once in the squad very very rarely get asked to leave.
In order to develop players they should be playing with and against better players or skilled players,this has been the ethos of every academy up and down the country but sadly not at the Barrow performance centre.For this reason we wont see the best of the local youngsters coming through as Neil has chosen his 15 players and will attempt to develop these players over the next few years.The players not chosen or late developers wont have a chance as there is no oppertunity to break into the performance centre team if your not chosen on selection day.Surely if the centre operated as an academy that brought in better players and released weaker ones then more players would have a better oppertunity.Most junior league managers will tell you that theres better players not getting a chance due the door being closed after the initial selection.Having said that i'm told that Neil has developed a couple of really good teams over the last 3 0r 4 years so credit where its due.I cant see the performance centre getting the best of local talent unless it operates like the academys but heres hoping that one day we get a few good local players good enough to play for their home town club.

Gotta agree with all of that, especially lines about refreshing the squad as players develop (or not) and not just basing it on a mass turn-out at St Bernards on a Sunday morning when 66 lads turned up and Doc and his crew had the unenviable task of sorting out a squad from that lot. Saying that, there have been players that haven't progressed in certain squads and were good 3 years back but just don't cut it now.

Lads develop, both physically and mentally, at differing rates in the teenage years and the Player Performance Centre needs to get out and see more youth football and adjust the squads accordingly.

[bluebird90]

From what I understand,the performance centre isn't the closed shop its made out to be and that there is the option of adding players to the squads if nessessary. Unfortunately, there will always be a difference of opinion on certain players and a feeling of injustice by certain parents/coaches/clubs when a child is not selected. Players will go through phases and just because a player loses a bit of form one season, should not mean that he is released from the performance centre, in fact it is probably vital that he stays to increase his confidence and allow the coaches to work on his development.

I think that some people regard the performance centre as a new version of the old Barrow inter-league teams which were results based and every year a team was picked on their form at their clubs, much like an international side is, with little time to develop players. However, it is much more than that, with a focus on player development in a pressure free environment. The threat of losing a place in the team would unfortunately have an impact on that environment. Unfortunately in this country, we have had too much of a win at all costs mentality at junior level, which places an emphasis on results only rather than skill development, luckily projects like the performance centre are changing this.

Let the kids develop first, the pressure can and will come later!

[Rob]

As part of a previous job, I attended a presentation at a school in Darlington by Martin Gray. I was very impressed - they run enhanced football coaching for the best pupils at several of the schools in Darlo and the surrounding area, with additional drop-in sessions for all kids. It shows the benefit of having a locally-based coaching team at the club. Clearly anyone of any quality will be on the fast-track to the Darlo Squad.

Along similar lines, I also think we should be making more use of Holker. If we had three to five of the best locals signed up on pay-as-you-play deals on recallable-loan at Holker, it would avoid having to bring in some of these dodgy loanees who have no connection with the team who - while potentially better players - haven't settled in by the time that they've gone off. If last year proved anything, it's that the 'small squad with loan players' model is flawed. While we can't afford a reserve team, we need alternatives for injury crises and fixture pile-ups.

[Ziggerzagger]

Unfortunately bluebird90 it is still,and always has been a closed shop.Ask Doc just how many players he has released and how many new ones have been brought into an existing squad?
There has been very little,if any players released or added once the squad was picked.The performance centre coaches dont watch local junior games(ask any coach of junior teams),once the squad is picked then they are tasked with developing it regardless.If it was run like an academy then existing players would be playing for their places and fringe squad players would be upping their game attempting to break into the squad.This would benefit all the players and ultimately Barrow AFC as they really would then have the best players.Also I beleive the squad trains for one hour a week and plays around 6 games per season!!Cant see how we can be optimistic about producing the best local players in that scenario.Good luck to them though as its better than doing nothing but certainly isnt the answer.

[bluebird90]

If it was run like an academy then existing players would be playing for their places and fringe squad players would be upping their game attempting to break into the squad.This would benefit all the players and ultimately Barrow AFC as they really would then have the best players.Also I beleive the squad trains for one hour a week and plays around 6 games per season!!Cant see how we can be optimistic about producing the best local players in that scenario.Good luck to them though as its better than doing nothing but certainly isnt the answer.

In my opinion, this would be detrimental to a players development and produce a results based environment rather than a skill development environment. Of course there should be space to accomodate any other outstanding local prospects but IMO not at the expense of players already there.

As an add on to this, there are a least two of the coaches at the performance centre currently coaching at other local junior sides!

[Neil Doherty]

Thanks Steve for your original post, i apologise for not keeping people up to date but we have been really busy with everything over the last few months and just havent had the time. it is really good to see the issue of Youth Development being discussed as i believe it is an important element in the development of the club. a few interesting points have been raised some of which i believe are valid some not!

Over the last 5 years we have managed to select 6 squads from under 11 to under 16 and we are about to select our new under 11 squad in the next few weeks. Our current under 16's wil progress to under 17's next year and will hopefully be playing as Barrow AFC youth team in the Lancashire Floodlit league. in addiiton we have also been in discussion with Furness College and the Lancashire FA about a new football course at the college, which some of our under 16's wil attend from September. this will provide them with academic studies in the morning and football coaching in the afternoon, which will clearly increase their contact time.

despite the progress made with very limited resources, we know improvements can be made.

Selection of players is a really difficult process. Ideally we would prefer to watch a whole season of under 10 matches before selecting players for our trial in June but we do not have the human resources to do this at the moment. As a consequence we do select players via a trial and of approx 60 attending we have to select 15. This is not an easy process and the 6 coaches present argue / debate long after the children and parents have gone about who should be selected. Clearly not everyone agrees with our selections, which we would expect, but whilst there are always one or two questions raised, by and large the local managers we have spoken to agree with most of the selections made.

movement in and out of squads does occur but we purposely do not operate like an Academy. When selected, our policy is to guarantee a player at least one year to develop their skills, unlike an Academy, where players can be released in one or two weeks. We take this approach because, as our original document states, our aim is to enable local players to reach their full potential and we don't believe releasing a player after a couple of weeks would enable us to achieve that goal. Despite this, we do release players. At the end of each season players and parents attend a progres meeting and if a coach does not feel a player has improved in specific areas he will be informed that he needs to improve and if not could be released during or at the end of the season. to date we have 6 new players in the under 16 squad, 6 new players in the under 15 squad, 3 new players in the under 14 squad, and one new player in the under 13 squad, one new player in the under 12 squad and one new player in the under 11 squad (although as stated we wont release any player in the first year of attendance unless their is a behaviour/attitude issue ). These are players who were not selected at the initial trial and who we are also coming up to our parent progress meetings in the next few weeks! Clearly, the longer the squad is in operation the more chance there is for new players to join and we always stress to players at the trial to keep positive because you never know when an oportunity will arise.

Despite this the team has recognised that as an organisation we do need to increase the number of matches we go to watch. This has incresaed this year to 24 (we record matches attended on our database) but we still need to see more. The problem isn't a lack of desire but a lack of time - our coaches are often working or have other commitments such as young families. As a consequence we have been developing a strategy to recruit a number of local scouts who can watch matches for us. Whilst it sounds simple the selection criteria makes it a little more difficult - we need an individual who ideally has a good knowledge of football, who is not attached or associated with a club, is free to work on Saturday mornings, is able to keep a fairly low profile and is willing to do it all for free! We have spoken to a couple of individuals but we also have to ensure we have the correct policies , training and checks in place before we move forward. Hopefully we should have some people in post for next season.

and finally.... anyone who has spoken to me about football over the last twenty five years will know i have always had a passion for the development of a local youth structure in this area. When i got released by Watford when i was 19 i couldn't understand why more of my contemporaries were not playing at a semi-professional level - i was not the best player of my age and i strongly believe more should have gone further. i have seen this replicated time and time again over the years and i am sure everyone locally can name a few players with a bit of support who could and should have gone further. 5 years ago an opportunity arose to do something about it and because of my desire to see it happen i gave it a go. it has been very hard work and i must admit at times i could understand why we as an area, have never managed to achieve it but despite the setbacks i believe it is something worth working for. I can assure you i have done this out of desire to see it happen and not out of self interest and i know from the work our coaches put in behind the scenes they share that desire.

i hope this has given a clearer insight about the progress of the Centre and some of the challenges we face,

thanks
Neil.