Floodlights

[Jim]

Improving conditions for fans is just, IMO, a red herring. If I can stand under cover on the terracing that's pretty much all I need from the match day experience. I would rather stand on the terracing at HS than sit in the freezing draught at Gateshead or quite a few other stadiums I could mention.

Sure, it would be nice to go to the bog and not have to wonder whether the liquid under one's feet is rainwater or something else, but even on the popular side there is the alternative of a portakabin loo.

I doubt that a plush stadium would add more than a few to the attendance.

[boyliegladbach]

Improving conditions for fans is just, IMO, a red herring. If I can stand under cover on the terracing that's pretty much all I need from the match day experience. I would rather stand on the terracing at HS than sit in the freezing draught at Gateshead or quite a few other stadiums I could mention.

Sure, it would be nice to go to the bog and not have to wonder whether the liquid under one's feet is rainwater or something else, but even on the popular side there is the alternative of a portakabin loo.

I doubt that a plush stadium would add more than a few to the attendance.

Load of rubbish.
Ok we will stick with a old run down stadium because an old dinosaur like you is happy.

See fylde for new ground attendance boost.

[Jim]

Improving conditions for fans is just, IMO, a red herring. If I can stand under cover on the terracing that's pretty much all I need from the match day experience. I would rather stand on the terracing at HS than sit in the freezing draught at Gateshead or quite a few other stadiums I could mention.

Sure, it would be nice to go to the bog and not have to wonder whether the liquid under one's feet is rainwater or something else, but even on the popular side there is the alternative of a portakabin loo.

I doubt that a plush stadium would add more than a few to the attendance.

Load of rubbish.
Ok we will stick with a old run down stadium because an old dinosaur like you is happy.

See fylde for new ground attendance boost.

You missed the point. Just responding to the opinion that a smarter ground would bring in more fans and I don't think it would. A winning team playing attractive football is more important, but that's another matter. If the whole ground was rebuilt to modern standards I honestly don't think it would make more than a marginal difference to attendances.

[Steeley]

Load of rubbish.
Ok we will stick with a old run down stadium because an old dinosaur like you is happy.

See fylde for new ground attendance boost.

You missed the point. Just responding to the opinion that a smarter ground would bring in more fans and I don't think it would. A winning team playing attractive football is more important, but that's another matter. If the whole ground was rebuilt to modern standards I honestly don't think it would make more than a marginal difference to attendances.

I kind of get your point, but even a winning team doesnt guarantee anything, as weve seen this season. I think we were getting better attendances the last time we were in the conference when we were garbage.

[John Very Little]

You missed the point. Just responding to the opinion that a smarter ground would bring in more fans and I don't think it would. A winning team playing attractive football is more important, but that's another matter. If the whole ground was rebuilt to modern standards I honestly don't think it would make more than a marginal difference to attendances.

I agree with you about the football standard but I think there are quite a few floating fans that are put off coming beause of the ground and in addition to that some regular fans when there's a TV game you can in the warmth of the pub/own home you can watch and its not great weather/temperatures outside. With the ground in its present state it can't be easy attracting new fans and if we do persuading them to stay also.

[Wintergreen]

Generally we get gates of just over a thousand no matter what league we are in. The occasionally curious come along occasionally e.g. versus Rochdale but don’t see enough to make them want to come back again. So there are no business or ethical reasons why we can’t play it on the deck a bit more.

If we could tie this footballing sea change into an improved stadium scenario the occasionally curious would appear again to view the improved stadium and some might be tempted to come back on a regular basis having actually seen a bit of football thereof.

[Stephen Leonard]

New ground isnt enough - look at Morecambe.
People will come for their own reasons and stop for their own reasons. Its hard to attract the 'new' fans and even harder to get them to stay. Look at the season of promotion under Bayliss and Sheridan, crowds shot up, they stayed for a bit of the next season, kept turning up for cup matches and eventually disappeared. Nothing to do with the ground I suspect, more to do with the fact it wasnt exciting anymore seeing 'new teams'. The key thing about any development is probably more about what other income can be generated on non match days than concentrating on the fans who turn up once a fortnight on average - however I am pretty sure that if the ground was developed along more commercial lines to generate an income and be used for more than just football, a lot of fans would then moan that it wasnt what they wanted and was being built for 'corporate' reasons.
Personally my favourite days watching Barrow were against the likes or Marine, Frickley, Emley, Chorley etc - I didnt need to be in a fancy stadium with 000's of seats, the atmosphere was better, the family feel was better and the enjoyment was better. Basic facilities at Barrow are poor (toilets etc) and need to be improved but the whole idea of a 10000 stadium with 2500 seats doesnt appeal. I guess thats why I dont get excited about the thoughts of football league which for some seems to be the holy grail - for me it would be more likely a disaster.

[behind the goals]

That awful game of football on Saturday would still have being awful even in a beautiful revamped Holker Street

[The Tomahawk Kid]

You missed the point. Just responding to the opinion that a smarter ground would bring in more fans and I don't think it would. A winning team playing attractive football is more important, but that's another matter. If the whole ground was rebuilt to modern standards I honestly don't think it would make more than a marginal difference to attendances.

I agree with you about the football standard but I think there are quite a few floating fans that are put off coming beause of the ground and in addition to that some regular fans when there's a TV game you can in the warmth of the pub/own home you can watch and its not great weather/temperatures outside. With the ground in its present state it can't be easy attracting new fans and if we do persuading them to stay also.

I actually watched the second half of our televised home game against Lincoln in The Soccer Bar whilst listening to a band that was rehearsing in the adjacent concert room - I'd been feeling a bit chilly whilst stood on the terraces during the first half - it was lovely and warm and the ale provided some welcome refreshment (enjoyed the music of the band too)

[Tunnocks]

Improving conditions for fans is just, IMO, a red herring. If I can stand under cover on the terracing that's pretty much all I need from the match day experience. I would rather stand on the terracing at HS than sit in the freezing draught at Gateshead or quite a few other stadiums I could mention.

Sure, it would be nice to go to the bog and not have to wonder whether the liquid under one's feet is rainwater or something else, but even on the popular side there is the alternative of a portakabin loo.

I doubt that a plush stadium would add more than a few to the attendance.

This just sums up the low standards attitude of this area. I've always thought that we have to put up with second best of everything, whether that be Portland Walk or tiny bits of retail parks all over the place. If a job is worth doing lets just do half of it, should be our motto.

If there is any lasting legacy of Paul Cassons ownership of the club then I would hope that it would be a completely redeveloped stadium fit for purpose for the next 100 years. Not just a new roof on the Holker Street end covering ancient terrace but for the whole end to be bulldozed and a terrace similar to the one that was at Christie Park built in it's place. The other 3 sides receiving similar treatment including a new stand that runs full length of the pitch.

We have been left behind by many clubs that were inferior to us like Morecambe, Burton and Fleetwood and more are sure to follow like Fylde, Salford and Fc United.

I hope not far into the future we may see a spanking shiny new Holker Street but in reality it is more likeally to be half a job done piecemeal if at all.

[The Tomahawk Kid]

New ground isnt enough - look at Morecambe.
People will come for their own reasons and stop for their own reasons. Its hard to attract the 'new' fans and even harder to get them to stay. Look at the season of promotion under Bayliss and Sheridan, crowds shot up, they stayed for a bit of the next season, kept turning up for cup matches and eventually disappeared. Nothing to do with the ground I suspect, more to do with the fact it wasnt exciting anymore seeing 'new teams'. The key thing about any development is probably more about what other income can be generated on non match days than concentrating on the fans who turn up once a fortnight on average - however I am pretty sure that if the ground was developed along more commercial lines to generate an income and be used for more than just football, a lot of fans would then moan that it wasnt what they wanted and was being built for 'corporate' reasons.
Personally my favourite days watching Barrow were against the likes or Marine, Frickley, Emley, Chorley etc - I didnt need to be in a fancy stadium with 000's of seats, the atmosphere was better, the family feel was better and the enjoyment was better. Basic facilities at Barrow are poor (toilets etc) and need to be improved but the whole idea of a 10000 stadium with 2500 seats doesnt appeal. I guess thats why I dont get excited about the thoughts of football league which for some seems to be the holy grail - for me it would be more likely a disaster.

Not exactly a NEW ground is it? I think the fact that Morecambe are beginning to struggle - on and off the field - has a lot to do with it.
The 'feel good' factor has gone.

I'm glad you said 'Personally', Stephen, with regard to your favourite days watching The Bluebirds.

The likes of Marine, Frickley, and Emley don't - and didn't - exactly exite me or many others, to be honest. Holker Street was like a Morgue in those days!

Also, could you eblaborate and explain the 'family feel' of those days? And the 'enjoyment'.
I personally believe it was just a term adopted by the Keen dynasty - and it seemed to do more harm than good regarding attendance levels.
Banning orders being given out at a whim, installation of CCTV and No Smoking also being major factors which drove away fans and acted as a deterrent to attracting new fans .

With regard to your comment concerning our intended promotion to the Football League and you seeing it being a disaster. Really?
That comment has a whiff of defeatist mentality about it.
You don't want Barrow AFC to be a successful club?

Did you vote against Paul Casson taking over? You don't have to answer that.
It was just a thought...

[Stephen Leonard]

New ground isnt enough - look at Morecambe.
People will come for their own reasons and stop for their own reasons. Its hard to attract the 'new' fans and even harder to get them to stay. Look at the season of promotion under Bayliss and Sheridan, crowds shot up, they stayed for a bit of the next season, kept turning up for cup matches and eventually disappeared. Nothing to do with the ground I suspect, more to do with the fact it wasnt exciting anymore seeing 'new teams'. The key thing about any development is probably more about what other income can be generated on non match days than concentrating on the fans who turn up once a fortnight on average - however I am pretty sure that if the ground was developed along more commercial lines to generate an income and be used for more than just football, a lot of fans would then moan that it wasnt what they wanted and was being built for 'corporate' reasons.
Personally my favourite days watching Barrow were against the likes or Marine, Frickley, Emley, Chorley etc - I didnt need to be in a fancy stadium with 000's of seats, the atmosphere was better, the family feel was better and the enjoyment was better. Basic facilities at Barrow are poor (toilets etc) and need to be improved but the whole idea of a 10000 stadium with 2500 seats doesnt appeal. I guess thats why I dont get excited about the thoughts of football league which for some seems to be the holy grail - for me it would be more likely a disaster.

Not exactly a NEW ground is it? I think the fact that Morecambe are beginning to struggle - on and off the field - has a lot to do with it.
The 'feel good' factor has gone.

I'm glad you said 'Personally', Stephen, with regard to your favourite days watching The Bluebirds.

The likes of Marine, Frickley, and Emley don't - and didn't - exactly exite me or many others, to be honest. Holker Street was like a Morgue in those days!

Also, could you eblaborate and explain the 'family feel' of those days? And the 'enjoyment'.
I personally believe it was just a term adopted by the Keen dynasty - and it seemed to do more harm than good regarding attendance levels.
Banning orders being given out at a whim, installation of CCTV and No Smoking also being major factors which drove away fans and acted as a deterrent to attracting new fans .

With regard to your comment concerning our intended promotion to the Football League and you seeing it being a disaster. Really?
That comment has a whiff of defeatist mentality about it.
You don't want Barrow AFC to be a successful club?

Did you vote against Paul Casson taking over? You don't have to answer that.
It was just a thought...

Universe Megadome is was opened I think in 2010 - hardly 'old' and they have been struggling for several seasons for crowds.
I did say personally because it is simply my opinion - thats when i enjoyed watching Barrow the most (and I am talking many years ago pre Keens etc)
By the sound of it Holker Street still seems like a morgue now - just with more people in it.
CCTV, Banning Orders, No smoking etc - I agree that wont help but as you progress up the leagues you will encounter more and more rules like that which will spoil the atmosphere even more I think

As for the football league, yes I do beleive it could be a disaster without significant changes and investment (not in the ground or playing staff but in the set up of the running operation of the club and the model on which it is financed) - I think Paul has pumped a significant amount into the club but my concern would be how much more would he need to put in to make it survive in the League.
I will be perfectly honest and say that the day we got promoted at Burton after the magnificent run under D&D I said the same thing, promotion at that stage would probably be a financial disaster, and I beleive I wasnt far wrong, the Sunderland, Wembley and Middlesboro days were great but masked the underlying difficulties that the club faced even at that level.
Defeatist - you can say that if you want - I prefer to see it as realism - I dont expect anyone to agree with my thoughts and dont say them to attract support or criticise others
I have always wanted Barrow AFC to be a succesful club - I guess I might just judge 'sucess' in a different way to others.For example this is the most successful season in non league football in many ways - (playoff places in league, 3rd round of FA Cup, beating a league side in FA Cup, Quarter finals of F ATrophy, Longest unbeaten run in many years) and yet the general mood seems to be one of disappointment, frustration and times even anger.
Did I vote against Paul Casson? - No I didnt, I didnt vote because I wasnt a member - but why that matters I am not sure?

[DaveP]

I think notwithstanding the "Barrow malaise" most fans after years of stagnation saw salvation when Paul Casson rode into town. Perhaps unrealistically but he was talking about a shiny new stadium, an enjoyable family matchday experience and of course the holy grail return to the football league.

We've relatively come a long way since then but nowhere near what many were expecting and this above all IMHO reflects itself in the general apathy towards the club.

[DIXIE]

Not exactly a NEW ground is it? I think the fact that Morecambe are beginning to struggle - on and off the field - has a lot to do with it.
The 'feel good' factor has gone.

I'm glad you said 'Personally', Stephen, with regard to your favourite days watching The Bluebirds.

The likes of Marine, Frickley, and Emley don't - and didn't - exactly exite me or many others, to be honest. Holker Street was like a Morgue in those days!

Also, could you eblaborate and explain the 'family feel' of those days? And the 'enjoyment'.
I personally believe it was just a term adopted by the Keen dynasty - and it seemed to do more harm than good regarding attendance levels.
Banning orders being given out at a whim, installation of CCTV and No Smoking also being major factors which drove away fans and acted as a deterrent to attracting new fans .

With regard to your comment concerning our intended promotion to the Football League and you seeing it being a disaster. Really?
That comment has a whiff of defeatist mentality about it.
You don't want Barrow AFC to be a successful club?

Did you vote against Paul Casson taking over? You don't have to answer that.
It was just a thought...

Universe Megadome is was opened I think in 2010 - hardly 'old' and they have been struggling for several seasons for crowds.
I did say personally because it is simply my opinion - thats when i enjoyed watching Barrow the most (and I am talking many years ago pre Keens etc)
By the sound of it Holker Street still seems like a morgue now - just with more people in it.
CCTV, Banning Orders, No smoking etc - I agree that wont help but as you progress up the leagues you will encounter more and more rules like that which will spoil the atmosphere even more I think

As for the football league, yes I do beleive it could be a disaster without significant changes and investment (not in the ground or playing staff but in the set up of the running operation of the club and the model on which it is financed) - I think Paul has pumped a significant amount into the club but my concern would be how much more would he need to put in to make it survive in the League.
I will be perfectly honest and say that the day we got promoted at Burton after the magnificent run under D&D I said the same thing, promotion at that stage would probably be a financial disaster, and I beleive I wasnt far wrong, the Sunderland, Wembley and Middlesboro days were great but masked the underlying difficulties that the club faced even at that level.
Defeatist - you can say that if you want - I prefer to see it as realism - I dont expect anyone to agree with my thoughts and dont say them to attract support or criticise others
I have always wanted Barrow AFC to be a succesful club - I guess I might just judge 'sucess' in a different way to others.For example this is the most successful season in non league football in many ways - (playoff places in league, 3rd round of FA Cup, beating a league side in FA Cup, Quarter finals of F ATrophy, Longest unbeaten run in many years) and yet the general mood seems to be one of disappointment, frustration and times even anger.
Did I vote against Paul Casson? - No I didnt, I didnt vote because I wasnt a member - but why that matters I am not sure?

Probably less money would need to be pumped in by PC as a league club. The club would receive more money from the league and players wages between leauge 2 and the national league, around the same.

[DIXIE]

I think notwithstanding the "Barrow malaise" most fans after years of stagnation saw salvation when Paul Casson rode into town. Perhaps unrealistically but he was talking about a shiny new stadium, an enjoyable family matchday experience and of course the holy grail return to the football league.

We've relatively come a long way since then but nowhere near what many were expecting and this above all IMHO reflects itself in the general apathy towards the club.

Your right Dave. But all of us who have been around for a while, including yourself know this is the best we have been since 1972 on all fronts.