Crossbar end (steelworks end)

[blue nige]

As disappointing as lack of progress on the ground is, where would we be now if Paul Casson hadn’t taken over?

That's totally irrelevant to the topic, statements were made and time after time a different picture was put in place .I personally don't think it's right to treat fans with this kind of contempt, yes he's put us back from being in debt but that doesn't give anyone the right not to be criticised!

[Wintergreen]

PC has kept us going no doubt but there is real disappointment with what was stated at the outset and what has actually come to be. Particularly galling is the fact that there were benchmark precedents already set with Morecambe, Fleetwood and now Fylde - our traditional contempories in this part of the country. They must be having a good ol' laugh at Barrow's 'millionaire makeover'.

[Dalton Bluebird]

As disappointing as lack of progress on the ground is, where would we be now if Paul Casson hadn’t taken over?

That's totally irrelevant to the topic, statements were made and time after time a different picture was put in place .I personally don't think it's right to treat fans with this kind of contempt, yes he's put us back from being in debt but that doesn't give anyone the right not to be criticised!

I wasn't meaning to question anyone's right to criticise, I'm as disillusioned as anyone by the breaking of promises made, but we are where we are. Comparing ourselves with Fylde, Fleetwood, Forest Green and Salford City is just envy, maybe their sugar daddies have much bigger wallets than ours.

[blue nige]

That's totally irrelevant to the topic, statements were made and time after time a different picture was put in place .I personally don't think it's right to treat fans with this kind of contempt, yes he's put us back from being in debt but that doesn't give anyone the right not to be criticised!

I wasn't meaning to question anyone's right to criticise, I'm as disillusioned as anyone by the breaking of promises made, but we are where we are. Comparing ourselves with Fylde, Fleetwood, Forest Green and Salford City is just envy, maybe their sugar daddies have much bigger wallets than ours.

I remember Paul Casson made fun of Fleetwood at the forum when in answer to a question from the audience he said "I think we can do a little bit better than that".
So he sometimes makes a rod for his own back!

[Holkerbird]

The Crossbar (previously the Sports & Leisure Centre) has been an eyesore ever since it was built - and it was never completed as originally planned. Just take a look at the end wall nearest the Popular Side; that was intended to be temporary until the building was finished. How many decades ago was that?

Would it be feasible to build new changing rooms under the stand to bring them nearer to the dugouts? That is where they were in the old wooden stand until Ray Wilkie decided that they were not fit for purpose and moved to the squash court facilities. It would also allow the Crossbar to be knocked down and a new stand or terrace built in its place.

That makes sense! Will it happen? I doubt it.

I've lost my all my optimism concerning the ground. Nothing's going to happen. I think we all need to realise that now.
It really annoys me when AFC Fylde and Fleetwood continue to prosper and now we see Salford making plans for their entry into the FL.

We were promised great things when Paul Casson took over.
Nothing' s happened and I now firmly believe nothing ever will.
Holker Street is a Morgue because everyone finally realises that our hopes, dreams and ambitions are now dead.
Barrow AFC have been sold down the river...

Stop moaning. You have been given permission to bring your drum to the ground so what more do you want, Some people are never satisfied.

[HenneysKnee]

Just look at the increase in Fyldes attendances since they’ve moved to their new ground

[Chris Benoit]

Just look at the increase in Fyldes attendances since they’ve moved to their new ground

The Blackpool owners fiasco probably is playing a big role in that. Not to take anything away from them like. We still play in a shit hole and crowds won't improve whilst it is in that state. A lot of clubs with new grounds or redevelopments have prospered because they have built in facilities for non match day revenue. I don't think PC will ever take a gamble on building something that could potentially leave us self sustainable rather than relying on his hangouts.

[01524]

Particularly galling is the fact that there were benchmark precedents already set with Morecambe, Fleetwood and now Fylde - our traditional contempories in this part of the country. They must be having a good ol' laugh at Barrow's 'millionaire makeover'.

Not with me. I'm not having a "good ol' laugh" ...... give me Christie Park over our new ground any day of the week.

Keep your history intact.

[barrowfan_chris]

I think its always going to be a case of just little bits that have to be done I can't ever see us getting a new stand/s.

Just didn't agree with the Casson comment it looks good

[Jim]

I don't blame PC for taking ground development slowly. Better to spend one's money carefully than blow it all. He has probably looked at the relatively poor attendances and reined in his spending. It is debatable whether a swish ground would actually lead to a significant improvement in attendances. Forest Green, struggling in league 2, are getting about 2,400 on average and even on one occasion as low as 1,300. I don't think we could hope for much more if we were in league 2.

The point of my earlier post was that, when PC took over, we were a mediocre Conf North side with few prospects and the real possibility of going bust. There is still much to do, but we are at least better off than we were.

PC's mistake, IMO, was to promise too much. I was once advised to "promise low" but deliver more than expected. We need to accept that his earlier, probably well-meaning, 'promises' (I prefer to call them aspirations) were too ambitious. If nothing else, he has kept the club going for the last 3 years or so when it might have gone under, and we have had some good times along the way.

[Bingo]

But if pc walked away and left the club debt free we would be in trouble fairly quickly. Our match day income and attendances can't sustain what is being spent.

A redeveloped or new ground which is geared up at generating income on match day and non match days is what is needed. I've said before but we just aren't geared up to extract money from fans.

Everything seems very short term

[Jim]

But if pc walked away and left the club debt free we would be in trouble fairly quickly. Our match day income and attendances can't sustain what is being spent.

A redeveloped or new ground which is geared up at generating income on match day and non match days is what is needed. I've said before but we just aren't geared up to extract money from fans.

Everything seems very short term

Fair comment - assuming there is money in the area to be extracted. I hear complaints that people can't afford to attend two matches in a week.

[Bingo]

But if pc walked away and left the club debt free we would be in trouble fairly quickly. Our match day income and attendances can't sustain what is being spent.

A redeveloped or new ground which is geared up at generating income on match day and non match days is what is needed. I've said before but we just aren't geared up to extract money from fans.

Everything seems very short term

Fair comment - assuming there is money in the area to be extracted. I hear complaints that people can't afford to attend two matches in a week.

Again its about taking a chance and a risk with pricing for the games, making it more affordable (maybe next season) - needs properly promoting tho and we need to be spot on when it comes trying to extract money when people come into the ground. I take your point about people not having money but I would imagine some going to the game (especially away fans) spend money on something to eat before and after the game and drinks before and after the game - how much of that "football money" is the club getting.

[Jim]

Agreed, we could try harder to get what money there is. And, as others have mentioned previously, there may be a financial case for investing in a facility that could be used outside match days. The ill-fated Reynolds folly (aka Darlington Arena) did have bars, meeting rooms, wedding venue (wouldn't be my choice for that), and even hosted the local Physio service for the NHS. It still does (apart from NHS) and is presumably a viable home for Darlington Mowden Park Rugby Club. Such a development at Barrow would need a sound business case with realistic income forecasts and probably some outside investment.

[McMark]

Any redevelopment at Holker Street would impact upon us all at some point. There is room under the stand to house changing rooms but would imagine that it's not an easy or straight forward solution drainage and water are probably non existent for a start.
This day and age you can get perfectly serviceable portable modular units for both changing rooms, corporate viewing or even toilets and catering. Some of the locally based windfarm operators offices and facilities function this way and they are palatial compared to what we currently have.
Salford City FC functioned this way during their redevelopment. Not sure what the changing rooms were like but the rest was very functional.
Even if we are not going to build in the imminent future (if at all). The club could add to the match day experience by maybe looking to hire some of these portable buildings if cost effective enough for corporate viewing or even Catering/ bar facilities. As it does seem like only improving things ground wise is going to bring more supporters through those turnstiles.