Decisions being made

[Nigel Bamford]

English RFU (below Premiership) declare season over and relegation/promotion determined on playing record. It means Newcastle Falcons return to Premiership even though that league hasn't decided what it's doing yet!
However, the Scottish RFU have declared the season null and void below the premiership so my local club, who are already National 1 champions, will get nothing for their outstanding season!

[Suffolk Blue]

No surprise there then. Now I wonder why I hate him and his daft plastic club !!!!

https://www.lythamstannesexpress.co.uk/ ... on-2527706

Is this the same man who said that Barrow should be promoted a week ago?

The thoughts of Chairman Hayhornthwaite. A bit like asking Donald Trump how well he thinks he's doing. I understand that Fylde have now elected to defer their players wagers rather than furlough their players. In other words accept that players should be paid but just not at the moment. If I was Jordan Williams I might be having a few sleepless nights over that prospect.

To be fair to him I dont think Chairman Dave gives a toss whether we would be promoted or not or whatever means that would be achieved by as long as Fylde were not relegated.

[AugustusCorpa]

No surprise there then. Now I wonder why I hate him and his daft plastic club !!!!

https://www.lythamstannesexpress.co.uk/ ... on-2527706

Is this the same man who said that Barrow should be promoted a week ago?

Yes, what a total knob. He said Barrow deserved to go up last week. He wouldn’t want a null & void if Fylde were top of course.

[russell_anderson]

Of course the Fylde owner will want the season to be null and void. Just like every other club his opinion will be based in self-interest exactly for the same reason as Ian Evatt wants the season based on points average. There isn't a fair method of sorting it out! We are in a better position than any other club. If the season is decided on current positions we will be promoted; if it is decide on points average we will be promoted; if the season is declared null and void then Bury will still have to be replaced next season and we are the obvious choice in that case. In fact, our least chance of being promoted is if the season is continued although we would still be favourites in that case unless we lost some of our best players.

[barrowfan]

if the season is declared null and void then Bury will still have to be replaced next season and we are the obvious choice in that case.

Whilst I agree, I doubt whether Harrogate or any other team that can mathematically get to the top will agree.

Also deciding who will replace Bury (if anyone) will have to be voted on and you know what happened at the last vote we were involved in! Perhaps the Board should buy a few bottles of whisky!

[Hadrian]

No surprise there then. Now I wonder why I hate him and his daft plastic club !!!!

https://www.lythamstannesexpress.co.uk/ ... on-2527706

Is this the same man who said that Barrow should be promoted a week ago?

A week is a long time in, er, football.

To be fair to the Fylde chairman, saying Barrow deserve to go up and that the season should be declared null and void aren't necessarily contradictory.

[Suffolk Blue]

if the season is declared null and void then Bury will still have to be replaced next season and we are the obvious choice in that case.

Whilst I agree, I doubt whether Harrogate or any other team that can mathematically get to the top will agree.

Also deciding who will replace Bury (if anyone) will have to be voted on and you know what happened at the last vote we were involved in! Perhaps the Board should buy a few bottles of whisky!

If the NL is voided but the EFL wish to add one more team to League 2 then what Harrogate, Notts County or anybody else thinks is not really relevant - and that includes us. As per the earlier part of this thread, the EFL appear to have full discretion to appoint a replacement member without asking anybody's permission. So no team would appear to have any strong legal recourse in this situation whatever decision they made.

So in that situation as I see it the EFL would be able to use whatever logic they chose to make their choice. This goes to the heart of the matter when it comes to our prospects in such circumstances. If the NL recognise us a Champions, irrespective of what they do with play-offs and relegation then it would be very difficult for the EFL not to select us and it would probably contradict agreed protocols not to do so.

In the event that the NL is null and voided then a different set of criteria I think could apply because the level of the EFL's discretion would be wider. So I can see at least five different decisions which could possibly be made in those circumstances, i.e.

(1) Barrow Promoted - the one we all want. Wont dwell on this but our position/stats in the NL and the fact that the club has already been approved for EFL membership still puts us in a strong position.

(2) Barrow and at least one-other promoted. This has been muted alongside the view that for one season the size of the EFL divisions could be inflated with no relegation until the following season when the Leagues return to normal size. Problem with this one is mainly the issue of a second promoted team, how you would select them and how this would work in a null and void situation. The option looks more viable only if to declare a season. Even in that event, the EFL would have to get FA approval to temporarily increase the number of teams in each League to more than 24.

(3) Nobody Promoted. This would retain the status quo and politically might be the "best" outcome in a null and void situation. It would settle any arguments. However there are compelling reasons why the EFL will want a 24th member of League 2. They wont want to run with a team short for two seasons and the additional club offers additional (home) gate revenue. Revenue that the clubs will be desperate for and have been used to getting.

(4) Notts County Promoted. The EFL could make the decision to recall the team that finished 23rd in League 2 the previous season. This may be quite attractive to many EFL members as County are a big club with a great ground situated in the heart of the country. From the outset this one has slightly worried me. However despite it's apparent attraction, politically it would be quite a difficult one to justify. County are not even second in the NL this season and from a PR perspective this would appear crooked and unfair. Further despite their attraction County have just posted a pre-tax loss of £2.8million for the last Financial year and to be frank were in complete tatters in their last few months in League 2.

(5) Bury reprieved. And then slotted into League 2. Quite a neat compromise - if sufficient time were allowed for the club to re-build. However, this is one instance where the "null and void" idea probably falls foul of reality. It would be very difficult to justify a team banished from the EFL due to an actual financial collapse being reinstated. The football world is in this instance trumped by the financial history which you cannot void. . Also think that the EFL have had their bellyful of Mr Dale and from a PR perspective this would be horrible.

There are some variations of these scenarios and other perhaps more radical referred to recently that would involve change to existing rules and structures. These wont be proactively sought by the EFL but might have to be considered if the financial toll of coronavirus begins to fracture the League structures.

So in summary if the EFL is happy to run with 23 clubs in League 2, I doubt we'd be promoted in a null and void situation. If it still wishes to have 24 clubs irrespective of "null and void" our prospects are still good and its a case of "who else but us?". The EFL will inevitably opt for the most pragmatic outcome in the circumstances, subject to it being one that doesn't open them up to significant criticism or controversy. This is why our club, its manager and players are having to be as prominent as they can be in the media and press currently as this is a form of lobbying both directly with the EFL and indirectly with broader public opinion. So far they are doing a great job and are very visible.

[russell_anderson]

if the season is declared null and void then Bury will still have to be replaced next season and we are the obvious choice in that case.

Whilst I agree, I doubt whether Harrogate or any other team that can mathematically get to the top will agree.

Also deciding who will replace Bury (if anyone) will have to be voted on and you know what happened at the last vote we were involved in! Perhaps the Board should buy a few bottles of whisky!

Bury will definitely be replaced. The last thing the league wants is playing with an odd number of teams. I also don't think there would be any chance of a team being voted into the league ignoring its playing record. Harrogate might well not be happy about Barrow getting the nod but there would be an absolute outcry if a team below Barrow were given the place and not just from Barrow supporters. I suppose they could come up with some system of a top 4 playoff or a top 2 playoff before the start of the season but that would be the worst outcome we could get.

[Moribund]

Whilst I agree, I doubt whether Harrogate or any other team that can mathematically get to the top will agree.

Also deciding who will replace Bury (if anyone) will have to be voted on and you know what happened at the last vote we were involved in! Perhaps the Board should buy a few bottles of whisky!

If the NL is voided but the EFL wish to add one more team to League 2 then what Harrogate, Notts County or anybody else thinks is not really relevant - and that includes us. As per the earlier part of this thread, the EFL appear to have full discretion to appoint a replacement member without asking anybody's permission. So no team would appear to have any strong legal recourse in this situation whatever decision they made.

So in that situation as I see it the EFL would be able to use whatever logic they chose to make their choice. This goes to the heart of the matter when it comes to our prospects in such circumstances. If the NL recognise us a Champions, irrespective of what they do with play-offs and relegation then it would be very difficult for the EFL not to select us and it would probably contradict agreed protocols not to do so.

In the event that the NL is null and voided then a different set of criteria I think could apply because the level of the EFL's discretion would be wider. So I can see at least five different decisions which could possibly be made in those circumstances, i.e.

(1) Barrow Promoted - the one we all want. Wont dwell on this but our position/stats in the NL and the fact that the club has already been approved for EFL membership still puts us in a strong position.

(2) Barrow and at least one-other promoted. This has been muted alongside the view that for one season the size of the EFL divisions could be inflated with no relegation until the following season when the Leagues return to normal size. Problem with this one is mainly the issue of a second promoted team, how you would select them and how this would work in a null and void situation. The option looks more viable only if to declare a season. Even in that event, the EFL would have to get FA approval to temporarily increase the number of teams in each League to more than 24.

(3) Nobody Promoted. This would retain the status quo and politically might be the "best" outcome in a null and void situation. It would settle any arguments. However there are compelling reasons why the EFL will want a 24th member of League 2. They wont want to run with a team short for two seasons and the additional club offers additional (home) gate revenue. Revenue that the clubs will be desperate for and have been used to getting.

(4) Notts County Promoted. The EFL could make the decision to recall the team that finished 23rd in League 2 the previous season. This may be quite attractive to many EFL members as County are a big club with a great ground situated in the heart of the country. From the outset this one has slightly worried me. However despite it's apparent attraction, politically it would be quite a difficult one to justify. County are not even second in the NL this season and from a PR perspective this would appear crooked and unfair. Further despite their attraction County have just posted a pre-tax loss of £2.8million for the last Financial year and to be frank were in complete tatters in their last few months in League 2.

(5) Bury reprieved. And then slotted into League 2. Quite a neat compromise - if sufficient time were allowed for the club to re-build. However, this is one instance where the "null and void" idea probably falls foul of reality. It would be very difficult to justify a team banished from the EFL due to an actual financial collapse being reinstated. The football world is in this instance trumped by the financial history which you cannot void. . Also think that the EFL have had their bellyful of Mr Dale and from a PR perspective this would be horrible.

There are some variations of these scenarios and other perhaps more radical referred to recently that would involve change to existing rules and structures. These wont be proactively sought by the EFL but might have to be considered if the financial toll of coronavirus begins to fracture the League structures.

So in summary if the EFL is happy to run with 23 clubs in League 2, I doubt we'd be promoted in a null and void situation. If it still wishes to have 24 clubs irrespective of "null and void" our prospects are still good and its a case of "who else but us?". The EFL will inevitably opt for the most pragmatic outcome in the circumstances, subject to it being one that doesn't open them up to significant criticism or controversy. This is why our club, its manager and players are having to be as prominent as they can be in the media and press currently as this is a form of lobbying both directly with the EFL and indirectly with broader public opinion. So far they are doing a great job and are very visible.

People keep saying "the EFL won't want to run with one club short", but why? Because it looks a bit unprofessional to outsiders? Doesn't seem like it matters too much to them.

Also, the other thing nobody seems to have addressed is that for us to be promoted to League 2, someone has to be promoted to League 1 - who would that be? Crewe and Swindon are separated by just a goal!

[Suffolk Blue]

To your first question the priority is money followed by money and then money. If it brings more revenue in to have 24 teams than it does 23 without increasing your fixed costs, then you do it. Quick example: Carlisle could expect how many against Barrow at home next season - maybe 8000? At £20 a ticket that's £160,000 in revenue. Even with increased variable costs (i.e. security) you dont have to be an idiot to see why it makes sense.

Secondly - in a null and void situation no teams in the EFL are promoted or relegated. We would be "invited" to join to make up the additional free space. No one in the EFL is disadvantaged.

[russell_anderson]

To your first question the priority is money followed by money and then money. If it brings more revenue in to have 24 teams than it does 23 without increasing your fixed costs, then you do it. Quick example: Carlisle could expect how many against Barrow at home next season - maybe 8000? At £20 a ticket that's £160,000 in revenue. Even with increased variable costs (i.e. security) you dont have to be an idiot to see why it makes sense.

Secondly - in a null and void situation no teams in the EFL are promoted or relegated. We would be "invited" to join to make up the additional free space. No one in the EFL is disadvantaged.

I agree and can you imagine the outcry there would be if a team with an inferior record than Barrow were the team to be "invited"?

[PerthBluebird]

Agreement made money being filtered down happy days

[HenneysKnee]

Basically the Premier League are going to pay us and the football leagues to ensure the seasons get finished was my reading of that

[Moribund]

To your first question the priority is money followed by money and then money. If it brings more revenue in to have 24 teams than it does 23 without increasing your fixed costs, then you do it. Quick example: Carlisle could expect how many against Barrow at home next season - maybe 8000? At £20 a ticket that's £160,000 in revenue. Even with increased variable costs (i.e. security) you dont have to be an idiot to see why it makes sense.

Secondly - in a null and void situation no teams in the EFL are promoted or relegated. We would be "invited" to join to make up the additional free space. No one in the EFL is disadvantaged.

That's £160k in revenue for us, but the EFL don't see that extra cash. They'll spunk much more than that fighting legal challenges from Harrogate, Notts County, whoever is not happy with the decision to promote us. The Premier League went down from 24 to 20 teams - do you think that was a mistake because of missed match day revenue?

Again, the space is in League 1 not League 2. That issue would need resolving for us to be "invited".

I can only really see 2 options: we play to a conclusion once football resumes, or a proper null and void - everything goes back to being how it was in August 2019. Maybe I'm a pessimist.

[blue nige]

https://twitter.com/premierleague/statu ... 57920?s=19