Decisions being made

[Suffolk Blue]

I don't expect it to be over even when a decision is finally made. There will then be a further period of uncertainty while clubs consider legal challenges. It will only be over when a Barrow team kick a ball in a league match again - wherever and whenever that may be!

Yes Jim. The wind might be blowing in the right direction but the boat certainly has not landed.

The issue of legal challenges and where they might come from is an interesting question. Personally I probably side with those that think it less likely that you'll see a rash of writs. The cost is obviously one factor but there are others. If the Premier League, EFL and NL can demonstrate that they have considered all options and have produced a solution that is consistently applied across the Leagues then it will make it more difficult to attack.

I also think that legal challenges would be more likely in a null and void situation. The idea that you'd take the NL to court for positively choosing a solution to end the season rather than one that abandons it would be difficult to sustain (after 80% completion) and would only really be tried by clubs who would suffer as a result.

So why would for example Notts County issue a writ? Null and void is gone and irrespective of whether you go PPG or weighted PPG they dont get higher than 3rd. Only 2 teams are scheduled to go up from the NL in any season so on what grounds would you litigate? At the other end Fylde and our friend Dave would have the same problem. If he's smart his argument will need to shift away from what's going on above Fylde and more towards the issue of promotion from the NLN/NLS. But he then has four very hungry teams gunning for him.

I'd be surprised if we got away without somebody trying the legal route but I dont think there'll be a queue to get into the High Court. The key as has always been the case, though not always the perceived wisdom, is to keep the solution simple, consistent and within the rules. The most thing about the latest views are that they seem to fit these criteria and therefore may actually fly.

Lawyers are not my favourite group of people generally speaking, but I do detect that there have been legal hands shaping this issue and that the solutions we are now beginning to see look like they've been if not crafted by lawyers then certainly influenced by them. For our sake I'm glad of that and it may be yet another reason why you might not see too many legal challenges.

[NORTHERNSOUL]

Leaked documents or information often tends to have some veracity or accuracy. Again we can only speculate what will happen, but objectively what is suggested makes sense; subjectively it is good for us, but not for e.g Notts County and other teams who will miss out on promotion or relegation. Legal action is a waste of time. It is just tub thumping because the legal system, always slow, has got much slower, the cost would be prohibitively expensive, and it would be many months, even years, before any action would be heard. Any club trying get promoted or stop being relegated would likely lose their action because of the exceptional circumstances In any event. The system as proposed would work, and above everything it would be just reward for the excellence of our season. (No bias at all in that final sentence..)

I wouldn't be so certain about the legal possibilities. Yes if your case was just based on a decision that you didn't like then yes eventually it would be thrown out but if it was based on the solution going against an organisations existing rules and regulations [ which for example the South Shields owner believe the decision in his league has done and he has the backing of 42 other clubs ] that's a different matter and he's come up with a plan of attack that although its a bit left field so to speak is financial and it's pretty clear that that's the way to get people to take notice about your beef.

And Yes as for getting it into court and getting a full and final decision you're right it would likely take years but getting an injunction to stop any further decisions around the one in contention [ which would in effect mean the league would either have to back down or compensate financially the clubs involved to their satisfaction ] or they simply wouldn't be able to move on with the following season with the clubs involved in divisions that they didn't agree with wouldn't really be that difficult to get.

[EHB]

The legal case stuff is interesting. Ultimately the leagues are members organisations and the members are the clubs. So In effect, a club would a club be suing itself ? Especially if it is done on a one club one vote system.

[Suffolk Blue]

The thing about an injunction is that it is designed to stop something from imminently happening. But its usually temporary and there has to be a remedial course of action. That would be the reason for the injunction.

You could go to a court and seek an injunction to prevent the NL doing something on the grounds that they had not reasonably considered other alternatives. So when the NL originally went to the FA on 25th March and asked for permission to null and void, that could well have invited an injunction had it been agreed and implemented at the time. However by chasing their tails for a month the NL could probably demonstrate that they have now reasonably considered all options. You wont get an injunction simply because you dont get the right outcome.

As we know that there are no specific rules for dealing with this situation HTB is probably right. A court would have look at the range of outcomes in terms of what it might reasonably expect the NL to do in the circumstances. It probably would not intervene as long as that could be demonstrated whatever the actual outcome was. What a court would consider unreasonable and what a club might consider unfair are two separate things. This is usually why these interventions dont happen as often as people think they do.

I still believe that seeking an injunction against a voiding situation is more likely to succeed than the other way round. This is simply because of the Mastermind principle (I 've started so I'll finish). Legal principles dont generally sit very well with idea that something that was originally started and progressed can be subsequently retrospectively expunged. But I think the NL have already been given that message by their advisers.

Strangely enough the FAs decision to void Steps 3-7 looks more debateable if only because it was done without much evidence of consultation. If the FA turned up in court and said something to the effect that "well we did it because we are the FA and we can" or "well we cant be expected to consult with all 200 teams at these levels" they could very quickly find themselves injuncted and told to go away and do the consultation and then come back to court.

[HenneysKnee]

Who are we thinking would actually take legal action? Notts County and Fylde?

[Suffolk Blue]

Who are we thinking would actually take legal action? Notts County and Fylde?

To what end though?

County's entire hopes have been pinned on play-offs. The NL spent an entire fortnight consulting on this and hasn't even totally abandoned the idea now. Once you accept that there is no solution that would satisfy every one it would be about considering best endeavours and process not outcomes. If the EFL calls the season without play-offs the NL would say that they were simply following suit which would probably be the reasonable thing to do. If there's a legal challenge on this issue it might come from an EFL team first.

As for Fylde, well anything that gets them relegated could in theory trigger legal action. But the history of null and void has been pretty well mapped. Even in the early days when every pundit seemed to think voiding was "fair and reasonable" it occurred to me that a court of law might deem otherwise. Seeking an injunction to void a season when it runs counter to common practice and has been exhaustively considered anyway, is a recipe for wasting money. Also despite chairman Dave's verbal explosions he is much more canny with his wallet. Doubt he'd go to court unless he was sure he could win. And in every instance where the solution would keep Fylde up that solution is more likely to result in others having a better case for an injunction then Fylde.

Lastly look at what's going on in Scotland in the SPFL. Threats, accusations, claims, counter claims, dossiers, rebuttals. Its almost like a street fight has broken out and part of the reason for that is that the courts have not really been involved at all so there's no legal process controlling things.

[Pedro]

Who are we thinking would actually take legal action? Notts County and Fylde?

To what end though?

County's entire hopes have been pinned on play-offs. The NL spent an entire fortnight consulting on this and hasn't even totally abandoned the idea now. Once you accept that there is no solution that would satisfy every one it would be about considering best endeavours and process not outcomes. If the EFL calls the season without play-offs the NL would say that they were simply following suit which would probably be the reasonable thing to do. If there's a legal challenge on this issue it might come from an EFL team first.

As for Fylde, well anything that gets them relegated could in theory trigger legal action. But the history of null and void has been pretty well mapped. Even in the early days when every pundit seemed to think voiding was "fair and reasonable" it occurred to me that a court of law might deem otherwise. Seeking an injunction to void a season when it runs counter to common practice and has been exhaustively considered anyway, is a recipe for wasting money. Also despite chairman Dave's verbal explosions he is much more canny with his wallet. Doubt he'd go to court unless he was sure he could win. And in every instance where the solution would keep Fylde up that solution is more likely to result in others having a better case for an injunction then Fylde.

Lastly look at what's going on in Scotland in the SPFL. Threats, accusations, claims, counter claims, dossiers, rebuttals. Its almost like a street fight has broken out and part of the reason for that is that the courts have not really been involved at all so there's no legal process controlling things.

Anyone considering Legal Action will have to have deep pockets and a good degree of certainty of winnining.
Irrespective of what view you take I cannot see legal action going to court with costs associated.

[Pedro]

Who are we thinking would actually take legal action? Notts County and Fylde?

To what end though?

County's entire hopes have been pinned on play-offs. The NL spent an entire fortnight consulting on this and hasn't even totally abandoned the idea now. Once you accept that there is no solution that would satisfy every one it would be about considering best endeavours and process not outcomes. If the EFL calls the season without play-offs the NL would say that they were simply following suit which would probably be the reasonable thing to do. If there's a legal challenge on this issue it might come from an EFL team first.

As for Fylde, well anything that gets them relegated could in theory trigger legal action. But the history of null and void has been pretty well mapped. Even in the early days when every pundit seemed to think voiding was "fair and reasonable" it occurred to me that a court of law might deem otherwise. Seeking an injunction to void a season when it runs counter to common practice and has been exhaustively considered anyway, is a recipe for wasting money. Also despite chairman Dave's verbal explosions he is much more canny with his wallet. Doubt he'd go to court unless he was sure he could win. And in every instance where the solution would keep Fylde up that solution is more likely to result in others having a better case for an injunction then Fylde.

Lastly look at what's going on in Scotland in the SPFL. Threats, accusations, claims, counter claims, dossiers, rebuttals. Its almost like a street fight has broken out and part of the reason for that is that the courts have not really been involved at all so there's no legal process controlling things.

Anyone considering Legal Action will have to have deep pockets and a good degree of certainty of winnining.
Irrespective of what view you take I cannot see legal action going to court with costs associated.
They will huff and puff but then walk away.

[Alley_Cat]

There will also be an almighty log jam in the courts when this is over so that wouldn’t be a quick process. Would the league be suspended until a decision is made?

[barrowfan]

There will also be an almighty log jam in the courts when this is over so that wouldn’t be a quick process. Would the league be suspended until a decision is made?

If it happens - and I don't think it will - surely whichever league would exclude that team until such time as a decision was made. This of course means all the gate money goes, so little point really!

[Nigel Bamford]

PL now unlikely to take a vote tomorrow on neutral grounds idea. Likely to be delayed until later in May. 3 clubs have come out openly against but others are believed to be against. Another 4 would see it defeated.

[Suffolk Blue]

PL now unlikely to take a vote tomorrow on neutral grounds idea. Likely to be delayed until later in May. 3 clubs have come out openly against but others are believed to be against. Another 4 would see it defeated.

The three clubs are the three immediately above the drop zone. Not really surprising. I'm sure the bottom three would agree with them. However, if they bring down the idea and the Premier League then declares the season the bottom three would be relegated any way. Huge political game going on. Key players in this debate will be the likes of Newcastle, Palace, Southampton and Everton.

Of course there is also the issue of the prize money based upon the final Premier League positions, at least some of which I believe has already been handed out to PL clubs early to cover their financial losses. This almost locks the PL our of a void decision as the money was granted on the basis of enabling a finish to the season. Indeed I understand none of the clubs expressing doubts about neutral grounds have actually questioned the need to finish.

[spirit of 1990]

A full page write-up in today’s Sunday Mirror.

[Pedro]

A full page write-up in today’s Sunday Mirror.

Thanks ,we ars certainly alot more media savvy than a few years ago
I.E has not only been the Manager but a good PR for the club.

[Suffolk Blue]

IEs thoughts captured on main BBC sports website. He rarely wastes a word.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/52614800